Taking bets: Alonso to Toyota in 2009

Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:38 am

modbaraban wrote:
Belatti wrote:
Ciro Pabón wrote:Alonso is the new Villeneuve right now

Yeah, right, please tell me when did Jacques started from P2
In his debut race?

I´m talking "afterwilliams"

Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:29 am

HKS wrote:
Ciro Pabón wrote:Alonso is the new Villeneuve right now

Impossible.Jacques did nothing like Fernando has done in a bad car.
FULL STOP

he did good with 1998 Williams.

And he crashed heavily 2x spa in bad cars.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:15 am

Belatti wrote:
Ciro Pabón wrote:Alonso is the new Villeneuve right now

There is a difference: Villeneuve reached in a Williams, (in a top moment, with a top car) took advantage of what was there and developed none.

If Alonso stays at Renault, next year we will know if he can point the team in the right direction, the way Shoemaker did with Benetton first and Ferrari later. The way himself did with Renault before.

QFT

That separates Alonso from the rest of the pack. He's not only a first class racer but his input in developing and setting up a car is priceless. Thats already showing, again.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:46 am

It certainly appears that Alonso's move from McL to Renault has damaged the former and improved the latter.

Why should he move to Toyota? If he stays at Renault he has a shot at becoming for Renault what M Schu was for Ferrari.

Alonso is good, but, as a Tifosi, I'm perfectly satisfied with Kimi and Massa.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:47 am

All of the above comments are why I say Fernando never got the credit he deserved at McLaren. How many other drivers on the grid right now, barring Kimi of course, do you know that could go from a championship winning team to another and miss winning another championship by one single solitary point? No one other than Kimi, that's who. And if McLaren had backed him instead of letting Lewis battle with him, he would have walked away with the championship. By giving Lewis his setup info, leading the development charge with PDR, and not choking when the pressure came down on him he did an outstanding job there. Yet all everyone talks about is how a rookie beat him. In what? Having been pampered? By not being British? For wanting equal status? Repayment for doing all of the development work on the car with PDR all season? He's much better than Lewis at damn near everything except looking like the innocent one. He was never given the credit he was due, and I'm feel bad for him that he hasn't gotten it yet.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:10 am

donskar wrote:It certainly appears that Alonso's move from McL to Renault has damaged the former and improved the latter.

Why should he move to Toyota? If he stays at Renault he has a shot at becoming for Renault what M Schu was for Ferrari.

Alonso is good, but, as a Tifosi, I'm perfectly satisfied with Kimi and Massa.

How about a $350M increase to his development budget?

Who says he cannot bring Flav and Symonds with him? Remember, the idiots paid Ralph $20M/yr just to drive into people.

Alonso at 100% Renault = Alonso at 60% at Toyota

There is more room and money at Toyoya, and Trulli is a patsy. I'd go.

Chris

Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:08 am

I don't think, FA would switch to Toyota. He would/should rather stay in Renault then Toyota.

Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:56 pm

HKS wrote:I don't think, FA would switch to Toyota. He would/should rather stay in Renault then Toyota.

And you objectivly measure that how? What exactly is so much better for him at Renault than Toyota? Remember, all of the Japanese would require translation of his comments at least, so they could at least "soften" what he says when he slams the team.

Chris

Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 pm

Ray, I think we are in complete agreement on Alonso.

Conceptual, good points, IF one sets aside the emotional/ego element.

I agree that Toyota has more money (or at least is willing to SPEND more) than Renault.

I know NOTHING about Alonso's psyche, motivations, emotional state, etc., so I may be off by light years, BUT IF he wants emotional/ego satisfaction to go along with the bags of money he'll get from ANY team, then Renault gives him the same opportunity that Ferrari gave M Schu - to bring a team back from the ashes and turn it into a dominant force.

Renault with Alonso = World Champion; without Alonso = also ran.

YES, he could do the same thing for Toyota, but I don't think he'll soon get over the experience of leaving Renault for another team. He has to think, "Will Toyota be another McLaren?"

Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:14 pm

donskar wrote:"Will Toyota be another McLaren?"

...Or is a better Renault?

That is the question, and I think it would be. Seriously, I'm sure Trulli would let him know how it runs.

Chris

Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:30 pm

This is a very difficult issue for Fernando.

Since his stunts at Hungary last year his reputation has take huge hits in terms of being a team player, team leader, sportsman and effective communicator. He is still a tremendously good driver though. just watch Macca struggle with setup since he left and Renault getting the J-dampers right and coming back in Barcelona.

but this isn't all the spice in the 2009 soup. there is also the issue of KERS where Renault is set to stuggle. just read Briatore desperately trying to hold back KERS for another year because he is unprepared and hasn't got the money to get it done. it failed and they will have to steal Goshn a thick wad of dosh to compensate for the lazyness in development.

perhaps Toyota isn't such a bad place to be in 2009. Williams are very bullish about KERS and I can imagine that Toyota are well informed what they do and have conducted own research for a long time.

with the huge changes comming in 2009 all teams with engineering savvy have new cards and may play them well. it could be a mistake for Fernando to have turned down Red Bull. Newey could be the guy who does the Royal Flush.

Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:22 pm

WhiteBlue wrote:Newey could be the guy who does the Royal Flush.

Vettel 2009 WDC in the RB5?

That would be great! LOL

Chris

Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:37 pm

Why Toyota? Why not Ferrari? :wink:

Given that Ferrari are masters of Machiavellian misdirection and misinformation . . .

Ferrari boss Stefano Domenicali has rubbished suggestions Kimi Raikkonen will quit Formula One at the end of the season if he wins a second successive world title.

Raikkonen is on course to emulate his feat of last season as he currently heads the drivers' standings by nine points and Keke Rosberg, the 1982 world champion and father of Williams driver Nico, recently hinted the Finn might walk away if he won back-to-back championships.

But speaking to Switzerland's Motorsport Aktuell, a dismissive Domenicali said: "I have heard this rumour and there is not a grain of truth to it. Kimi is motivated from head to toe and I know he is not thinking of retiring.

Wed Apr 30, 2008 10:00 pm

´Kimi retiring at the end of the year would be good for Nico so it isn't such abig surprise that Keke talks about such things.

Sat May 03, 2008 2:59 am

Ross Brawn alluded to this, and it's been something I have thought about since the first 'Kimi might retire early' story broke...I'm usually not one to predict things but here it is: Kimi stays at Ferrari through 2009 then retires (after 3 straight championships??

), Alonso joins Ferrari after his two years at Renault (joining Ferrari in 2010) while Felipe still plays second fiddle. That is speculative enough, so although I have my predictions for other drivers and teams for the 2010 season and beyond, I'll save them for about 24 months from now!

Some quite interesting predictions you lay down there. We'll see. I think the first may be correct :!:

Taking bets: Alonso to Toyota in 2009

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