Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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saam
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Alonso isnt at ferrari so no point pretending that he is..

Some drivers in the paddock are friends and some arnt..

Apart from showing he still doesnt want mclaren to win anything says that knows more than what the papparazzi claims.

Yes, he is allowed to show an oppinion now being WC, he is keeping his options open for when there would be a seat at ferrari

And the stupid comments about webber on here 'come on ' he is one of the most sensible drivers out there. But i suppose these same people wanted webber to drive massa into the wall while passing maybe thats what hamilton would have done by the way he is driving nowadays

I like hamilton as a driver, but his team....
Always FERRARI


Everyones an F1 expert........

wesley123
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Ciro Pabon wrote:Even Alonso, if he were in a McLaren or a Ferrari would have beat these pair of morons, hands down, just like Ali. You could also, easily, bring forward comparisons to the "race of turtles" we have now for the american presidency. It's a case of who's less incompetent.
Sure he didnt if he still drove a mclaren, last year Hamilton beated him mentaly(while he didnt do anything 0.o) and they did the same on points. Hamilton has growed so he would be better then last year so i dont see it happen.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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shotzski
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Please forgive me if my post is not approppriate in this thread. But it concerns Alonso :D
In the post-race press conference conducted immediately after Sunday's event, the three podium finishers were asked if they thought Hamilton's drive-through penalty was fair. While Kimi Raikkonen and Robert Kubica both replied that they "didn't know" because they "didn't see the whole thing", Alonso, without hesitation, declared he "agreed" with the decision.


However, speaking later to a Spanish newspaper, the former McLaren driver, who endured a fractious relationship with Hamilton during his season at Woking, Alonso admitted he didn't know what had happened or even what the stewards had found him guilty of.


"I don't know what he did," said the Spaniard, "but it's good he's punished anyway."
Hasn't he moved on from last year yet? He is no less arrogant than Lewis with his comments. Heck, why not punch Lewis the next time they meet. He claims to have no problems working with Lewis last year, and pretend to be friends with him this year in front of the cameras. But when Lewis isn't around, Alonso shoots Lewis like this. What gives?

Note: I'm not being bias because I'm a Mclaren fan. I just don't like backstabbers. Especially when Lewis isn't taking a shot at Alonso the whole year round.

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Steven
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Oh well, it's the Spanish press, and all of Spain doesn't like Hamilton. He will probably have talked a bit to the mouths of the Spaniards.
Also, I don't see how this relates to Renault, from what I can judge Renault's driver liberty is much bigger than at McLaren where no one is allowed to say anything, except that the car works well. Fernando won't drive anyone off, he is there to get his own podiums and his own wins, and quite frankly he's doing a great job.
I actually remember people questioning the fact that Alonso could bring Renault back to the front, well I think they're getting pretty close now.

@Belatti : For me, the perfect F1 driver tells what he thinks, we seriously lack character on the current grid.

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shotzski
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Well I suppose you are correct Tomba. Thanks for those clarificatioons.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Heck, if I were driving a Force India I would help Massa.

Take in account I have NOT been fired from McLaren because of Hamilton manouvering... imagine if I had been. :)

Allow me to go deep into paradigms (how I hate that word!).

Frankly, Alonso reminds me of Muhammed Ali.

Is this man sick? If yes, whith what? With greatness?
Some of you must remember when people yelled at Ali: "lift the left hand!".

Ali did NOT guarded his face. He wasn't planning to do it, he simply couldn't do it in a different way, and even with that, he was the greatest. The greatest fighter, but over all, the greatest to watch. It took me one minute to find these two pictures...

Why guard myself with the left...
...if I don't need to?
Alonso is the only guy you watch to learn how to do it.

If you watch Hamilton and Massa, is to learn how not to do it. :)

This year's championship is unbelievable. Someone has to say to Hamilton and Massa to grow up. Yes, I know about "racing rage", but the chain of mistakes these two guys had made is amazing.

Even Alonso, if he were in a McLaren or a Ferrari would have beat these pair of morons, hands down, just like Ali. You could also, easily, bring forward comparisons to the "race of turtles" we have now for the american presidency. It's a case of who's less incompetent.

So, I find totally understandable Alonso's heart leaning for the less "Palin-like" of the two contendors. :D After all, Alonso is head and shoulders over his competition, that's clear as water.

Ali at the Olympics. That's what I call stature.

Talking about stature, just imagine how many points Schumacher would have amassed under the same circumstances. Schumi would have won this championship around August. :)

Of course, I can remember that this kind of attitude against Shivers and others, in his later fights, is what took Ali to "Parkinson's road". I hope Alonso does not get the same kind of beating in his later years. After all, Ali's physician left him after that fight with Shivers, claiming he couldn't watch him any more. :(
You got it all wrong... If anyone in F1 is to be compared to Ali it should be Lewis Hamilton, and if I had to compare Alonso to anyone it would be Sonny Liston. If you knew anything about Ali you would know he was almost universally reviled in America, as is HAmilton worldwide, they were both considered brash & arrogant. Hamilton "Shook up the World" last year when he showed everyone that a rookie was just as good as a 2X-WDC, but actually better. We all now know that Alonso is overhyped and probly only won those 2 WDC's because Michelin but a better product on track than bridgestone(& McLaren was rediculously unreliable). This time last year we were marveling at how Lewis destroyed the field in Japan and How Alonso threw his championship away into the wall in the very same race.

Alonso is clearly not the one to watch in how to do it, he alienated his team last year and if he didnt would possibly be in title contention this year, but instead is elated with 2 wins gifted to him(but he did do well to beat Kubica in Japan). I remeber Alonso making plenty of mistakes in his title runs, run ins with Doornbos(IN PRACTICE!) and takeing the wrong tires in China, He makes mistakes like they all do. I remember him running full speed into the yellow flags in the rain in Brazil nearly killing himself & Mark Webber. Alonso is good but Hamilton is better, and that is the reason Alonso wants to help Massa, bEcuz Hamilton will easily eclipse Alonso's records.

wesley123
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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ISLAMATRON wrote:Alonso is clearly not the one to watch in how to do it, he alienated his team last year and if he didnt would possibly be in title contention this year, but instead is elated with 2 wins gifted to him(but he did do well to beat Kubica in Japan). I remeber Alonso making plenty of mistakes in his title runs, run ins with Doornbos(IN PRACTICE!) and takeing the wrong tires in China, He makes mistakes like they all do. I remember him running full speed into the yellow flags in the rain in Brazil nearly killing himself & Mark Webber. Alonso is good but Hamilton is better, and that is the reason Alonso wants to help Massa, bEcuz Hamilton will easily eclipse Alonso's records.
I agree with you, Alonso is overhyped but Hamilton is too. If Hamilton makes a mistake everybody start shouting that he cant drive, all because they expect better from him. Alonso is so easy to destroy mentaly, like he was last year by hamilton. But what did hamilton do? Drive better on track, Hamilton even try to be good teammates with him. Alonso is only trying to be a ferrari driver and he dislikes Hamilton and McLaren probably cause mclaren didnt pay him enough and Hamilton beated him most of the time.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

Conceptual
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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wesley123 wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:Alonso is clearly not the one to watch in how to do it, he alienated his team last year and if he didnt would possibly be in title contention this year, but instead is elated with 2 wins gifted to him(but he did do well to beat Kubica in Japan). I remeber Alonso making plenty of mistakes in his title runs, run ins with Doornbos(IN PRACTICE!) and takeing the wrong tires in China, He makes mistakes like they all do. I remember him running full speed into the yellow flags in the rain in Brazil nearly killing himself & Mark Webber. Alonso is good but Hamilton is better, and that is the reason Alonso wants to help Massa, bEcuz Hamilton will easily eclipse Alonso's records.
I agree with you, Alonso is overhyped but Hamilton is too. If Hamilton makes a mistake everybody start shouting that he cant drive, all because they expect better from him. Alonso is so easy to destroy mentaly, like he was last year by hamilton. But what did hamilton do? Drive better on track, Hamilton even try to be good teammates with him. Alonso is only trying to be a ferrari driver and he dislikes Hamilton and McLaren probably cause mclaren didnt pay him enough and Hamilton beated him most of the time.
Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

We will see who is the best in 2008 after Brazil, not before.

In 2007 Hamilton and Alonso were tied, so neither was the best, Kimi was.

Please allow objective measurements to determine who is the best, not subjective emotion.

And if you STILL reject the objective edvidence in favor of your subjective feelings, then you are a bigot, and that is just irrational.

But this is F1, so I guess irrationality is par for course.

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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Well, thanks, Islamatron. I tought nobody has read what I wrote.

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, out of thread: how exactly is Hamilton fighting corruption and "good ole boys" clubs in F1? Where are the controversial stances in Hamilton's short career? Who has he accused of cheating, in the most amazing denounciations I've seen in the long history of F1?

Well, I'm not counting the Tripoli GP scandal, but I doubt many people here remember that, and that scandal happened decades before F1 started.

So, to be clear, how many penalties did McLaren get when he declared he did know nothing about proven corruption? That's what can make a difference in people's minds.

If you think Muhammed Ali was controversial simply because he said he was the greatest, well... I could agree with your point of view.

However, I think Ali was different because he refused to be managed in the "usual way". He actually made a difference in many people's lives, not because of his ego (and he had a big one), but because he fought every inch of the way against the establishment. He's the guy that went into a self imposed exile, losing even his boxing license, just because he refused to be what managers wanted him to be, that is, a PR persona.

BTW, persona is latin for "mask". ;)

Hamilton is not very good at fighting the establishment. Actually, Hamilton is a "son of the establishment", or at least I see him in that way. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but there you have an opportunity to show me where I'm wrong: please, change my ignorance by providing some facts: I'll be happy to change my point of view when you show me how he's a rebel.

That's what made Ali different, not the amount of winnings. If you measure boxers by that measure, then I guess Larry Holmes is the greatest... :)

Anyway, in the end, that's irrelevant for this thread.

Third, totally on thread:

Here is the translation of the relevant part of the interview, for your illustration:

"Finally, after commenting to him that in Brazil (people) does not trust that Raikkonen is going to help Massa, altough the fans think he will do it, now that he has a competitive car, he said, among laughters, 'Yes, without a doubt. If I can help, I will help Massa.'"

This has ended being translated as: "Alonso vows he'll help Massa." and that's no joke, in my opinion.

Now, the same newspaper (AS) brings you the following quote (my translation):

(At the podium)... the polish (Robert Kubitza) said in italian: "Fernando, now that your car is running well, lend me a hand for the title". The asturian replied: "I'll lend you any hand you wish, but I don't think is going to be of any help, the problem is that is your car the one that is not running.", and then he laughed.

I imagine that this will give some people (the ones without a sense of humour) some other way to crucify Alonso. I can imagine some translation like "Alonso swears he will help Kubitza if BMW improves"... and comments about Alonso wishing to move to BMW. Yeah, sure. :)

C'mon, guys, if Alonso is Word Champion of anything is Word Champion of Realism... :D Don't screw yourselves over declarations, when you had no idea of the tone with which he said them.
Ciro

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Shaddock
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Ciro Pabón wrote:
If you think Muhammed Ali was controversial simply because he said he was the greatest, well... I could agree with your point of view.

However, I think Ali was different because he refused to be managed in the "usual way". He actually made a difference in many people's lives, not because of his ego (and he had a big one), but because he fought every inch of the way against the establishment. He's the guy that went into a self imposed exile, losing even his boxing license, just because he refused to be what managers wanted him to be, that is, a PR persona.
He also turned against his country and refused the draft "We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah "

If the millions who lost/gave their lives in 40's had said this we would all be goose stepping now.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Shaddock wrote:
Ciro Pabón wrote:
If you think Muhammed Ali was controversial simply because he said he was the greatest, well... I could agree with your point of view.

However, I think Ali was different because he refused to be managed in the "usual way". He actually made a difference in many people's lives, not because of his ego (and he had a big one), but because he fought every inch of the way against the establishment. He's the guy that went into a self imposed exile, losing even his boxing license, just because he refused to be what managers wanted him to be, that is, a PR persona.
He also turned against his country and refused the draft "We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah "

If the millions who lost/gave their lives in 40's had said this we would all be goose stepping now.
HE did not turn against his country, HE turned against a country which he lived in that allowed segregation and discrimination within its laws, Why should he have fought for a country that institutionalized racism and discrimination, exactly how much different was that the Nazi Idealogy? The same superiority idealogy that suported the racist laws in america is the same idealogy that the Nazi used to justify their atrocities.

In many ways Ali improved america, much more so than the Vietnam war has ever done, but you may not understand that.
Last edited by ISLAMATRON on 14 Oct 2008, 19:58, edited 2 times in total.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Conceptual wrote:Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

We will see who is the best in 2008 after Brazil, not before.

In 2007 Hamilton and Alonso were tied, so neither was the best, Kimi was.

Please allow objective measurements to determine who is the best, not subjective emotion.

And if you STILL reject the objective edvidence in favor of your subjective feelings, then you are a bigot, and that is just irrational.

But this is F1, so I guess irrationality is par for course.
No we will not see who is the best we will see who the FIA & the stewerds favor the most.

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Well, thanks, Islamatron. I tought nobody has read what I wrote.

First, welcome to the forum.

Second, out of thread: how exactly is Hamilton fighting corruption and "good ole boys" clubs in F1? Where are the controversial stances in Hamilton's short career? Who has he accused of cheating, in the most amazing denounciations I've seen in the long history of F1?

Well, I'm not counting the Tripoli GP scandal, but I doubt many people here remember that, and that scandal happened decades before F1 started.

So, to be clear, how many penalties did McLaren get when he declared he did know nothing about proven corruption? That's what can make a difference in people's minds.

If you think Muhammed Ali was controversial simply because he said he was the greatest, well... I could agree with your point of view.

However, I think Ali was different because he refused to be managed in the "usual way". He actually made a difference in many people's lives, not because of his ego (and he had a big one), but because he fought every inch of the way against the establishment. He's the guy that went into a self imposed exile, losing even his boxing license, just because he refused to be what managers wanted him to be, that is, a PR persona.

Hamilton is not very good at fighting the establishment. Actually, Hamilton is a "son of the establishment", or at least I see him in that way. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but there you have an opportunity to show me where I'm wrong: please, change my ignorance by providing some facts: I'll be happy to change my point of view when you show me how he's a rebel.
HEy, thanks for the welcome Ciro. I happen to know alot about Muhammad Ali, because I was named after him and have taken a large interest in his life. Truely, none of the current F1 drivers seem to buck the system like Ali did, but in the case of JV & JPM we see what happens to drivers who do. Neither Alonso nor Hamilton seem to have the personality nor the strength of conviction as Ali, but they are both pretty damn good drivers.

andartop
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Shaddock wrote:
He also turned against his country and refused the draft "We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah "

If the millions who lost/gave their lives in 40's had said this we would all be goose stepping now.
If the millions of Germans who were manipulated into Nazism turned against their country we might have not had WWII in the first place. As with all things, extremism can only eventually lead to trouble, but most often it leads to trouble if you are overly patriotic not overly un-patriotic!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft

boci
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Re: Alonso: "I'll do anything to help Massa"

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Ciro Pabón wrote: Hamilton is not very good at fighting the establishment. Actually, Hamilton is a "son of the establishment", or at least I see him in that way. Sorry if I'm mistaken, but there you have an opportunity to show me where I'm wrong: please, change my ignorance by providing some facts: I'll be happy to change my point of view when you show me how he's a rebel.
Well everyone advises Hamilton to stay back and cruise to get easy points but he goes against that and always fights for the win... Isn't that something?