Seems like OWG made it right! Overtakings at Melbourne!

[vall]

The fact that the cars can follow each other so close without loosing too much of DF means OWG got it right, IMO. But you still need to be ~1 sec faster AND to have track that allows overtakign moves. Silverstone is not one of them. I was wondering why Alonso always tried to take Nick from outside. But then I realized that all Nick had to do was to close the inside path and that was enough to keep Alonso.

[Metar]

The fact that the cars can follow each other so close without loosing too much of DF means OWG got it right, IMO. But you still need to be ~1 sec faster AND to have track that allows overtakign moves. Silverstone is not one of them. I was wondering why Alonso always tried to take Nick from outside. But then I realized that all Nick had to do was to close the inside path and that was enough to keep Alonso.

Indeed, I was wondering for a while why Alonso took the outside in a place where it wouldn't work, ever - until I saw that he actually tried the inside, but as long as Heidfeld left slightly less than a car-width of tarmac to his right, it was impossible. And with his monstrous oversteer in the final turn (he lost ground there every time), Alonso couldn't do anything on the main straight either.

But, the situation is still greatly improved compared to previous years. F1 may never reach motorcycling levels, but it's getting better.

[mep]

I think Silverstone is a quite good track for overtaking even when it was impossible during this race.
But anyway it is hard to tell what makes a track good for overtaking.

Ok maybe it is easier to follow a car now in closer distance but the drivers are still not able to overtake even when they have a much faster car.
I think the key might lie in slipstream effect.
When I see some old videos from maybe 70-80 then I notice that the cars can really catch up the leading one just by following the other one on the straight and then they can try to overtake with a huge speed overrun.

Now they follow the leader just 5-10 meters behind and nothing happens.
They don’t get this suction to the leader anymore.

That’s the point where they should do something.
Maybe by increasing the drag of the cars or by increasing the width like it was 1997.

[vall]

I think Silverstone is a quite good track for overtaking even when it was impossible during this race.
But anyway it is hard to tell what makes a track good for overtaking.

Perhaps a few long full-throttle parts followed by a heavy brake turn would help?

When I see some old videos from maybe 70-80 then I notice that the cars can really catch up the leading one just by following the other one on the straight and then they can try to overtake with a huge speed overrun.

Now they follow the leader just 5-10 meters behind and nothing happens.
They don’t get this suction to the leader anymore.

could it be also down to engine? Now engines are the same.

[Federico]

Perhaps a few long full-throttle parts followed by a heavy brake turn would help?

Baharain is only full-throttle straights and heavy brake turns and it is the most boring circuit of the season...

could it be also down to engine? Now engines are the same.

Hell yeah! Engine freeze sucks... Maybe if engines development were allowed Ferrari and Mclaren (for example) would be more competitive

[timbo]

I think a lot comes to that cars have excessive grip compared to throttle.

[mep]

Perhaps a few long full-throttle parts followed by a heavy brake turn would help?

That was once a theory but I think it is a really old one and it is wrong during recent time (when it ever was true).

Just look at tracks like Imola.
You have hairpin and especially really narrow chicanes like last one before finish line.
I guess especially this chicane makes it really hard to overtake because you can not drive through it side by side and the first car will accelerate a few tenths earlier. So the following car never has a chance to overtake there or in the following section.

[modbaraban]

Different cars, more torque, less aero grip, more tyre grip.

[Ian P.]

The solution itself is simple..... significantly reduce aero grip. No question.
Implementing it nowadays would be difficult as dropping down to say 2 G corning loads would not be appealing to .... what the heck....why not.....???
Who would realy lament slower cornering..???

They keep playing with the aero rules when it would seem that all they need to do is severly restrict the wings. And I mean severly.....as in none.

[Ogami musashi]

The solution itself is simple..... significantly reduce aero grip. No question.
Implementing it nowadays would be difficult as dropping down to say 2 G corning loads would not be appealing to .... what the heck....why not.....???
Who would realy lament slower cornering..???

They keep playing with the aero rules when it would seem that all they need to do is severly restrict the wings. And I mean severly.....as in none.

Me.

Because in my Kart i corner faster than 2G's...

[Metar]

Me too.

Things that go fast in a straight line? Sportscars, drag-racers, and a long list of others.
Things that do everything insanely fast, including corners? That's what F1 means, to me. I'll watch Monaco and Monza even if they're just hotlapping. F1 is the only series where I can bother with qualifying sessions - because they take corners at speeds that still amaze me every time.

[gibells]

In Motogp I read that next year they would be banning carbon brakes in an effort to increase braking distances and thereby increase the chances of overtaking in corners. Could the same idea work in F1?

[timbo]

In Motogp I read that next year they would be banning carbon brakes in an effort to increase braking distances and thereby increase the chances of overtaking in corners. Could the same idea work in F1?

Maybe it could've worked but it would take away the insanity of fast lap in F1! When you watch onboards and the car approaches the corner and brakes soooo late you're sure it's not gonna make it!

[modbaraban]

I already suggested limiting downforce by the rules while making aero regs more or less open. That would help overtaking and controlling the speeds w/o turning it into spec series.

[WhiteBlue]

As the season progresses and all teams maximise the DDD downforce we are getting back to a situation we had before the OWG change. That was really a very stupid decision most likely determined by political tactics and not by consideration what was the intention of the rule and good for F1. The other problem according to AMuS

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 32198.html

is the limitation of the front wing changes to one time per lap. If they would scrap that the cars could find a bit more stability.