Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:31 pm

something else. Yesterday in an interview, MW lied that the team did not order LH to pass Truli and that LH did not slow down or else (implying Truli did wrong)? Now, MW suspends Ryan for lying the stewards the same :o WTF? Who will suspend MW then?
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:34 pm

vall wrote:Who will suspend MW then?

It's cool to be a boss!
timbo
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:36 pm

Spencifer_Murphy wrote:YIf they were just trying to protect Lewis they could just say "We breifed Lewis on what to say and there was a mix up" Lewis isn't made to look like a liar and Dave Ryan has no implication.


If the did that, then what? It would look like the whole team, company, everyone there, is a liar :) They would not do that. Better sacrifice some individual that the whole team.
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:40 pm

timbo wrote:
gcdugas wrote:All the confusion, rulings, over rulings and retractions, all the instability and vacillations still lays at the feet of the FIA stewards who were too incompetent to run the simplest of inquiries with all the information available to them.

Bravo to the FIA... another F'up successfully covered up.


OK, so you imply that when drivers or teams are being asked by stewards they should be treated with presumption of guilt? So if they directly asked LH whether he was asked to let Trully through, and the answer was no, stewards have to check his words.
Fine.



It is always their job to check all the facts. Period. They F'ed up as much as Mac lied. Are you implying if the FIA asked Schumi if he parked it at rascasse and he said no, that their investigation is over? The words "verify" and "confirm" imply that there has been an initial assertion that must be corroborated.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 6:46 pm

DaveKillens wrote:There have been claims that Ferrari and the FIA are seeking to hurt McLaren

Oh, God. here we go again. I also met a Martian last night.

DaveKillens wrote:Let's talk about Ferrari.

Yeah, let's talk about Ferrari. They had a disastrous start to the season, a lot worse than McLaren's.

DaveKillens wrote:McLaren are presently their fiercest competitors

Presently, it seems to be the Brawns, the Williams, the RBRs, and the Toyotas. Presently.

DaveKillens wrote:Personally, I see nothing wrong in Ferrari's actions concerning this case.

With all their problems, do you really think they have time to worry about Hamilton or McLaren at this point?

DaveKillens wrote:But who knows, they may have done absolutely nothing, and this is just another situation where they catch blame, regardless of their guilt. Or innocence.

Yeah, they have done nothing. McLaren did it to themselves and Lewis. From the radio transmissions, I got the impression Lewis knew the rules better than his pit wall. That's pathetic. I don't think I heard Ferrari chatter in there. And if anybody was to talk to Whiting or others, could it be that it was perhaps Toyota people? They seem most interested for the FIA to have a second look at this.
As far as the blame aspect goes, I think it's people that think like you in these occasions that raise this silly accusations.

Seriously, Dave, you post a lot good comments on here. This post, however, must be the worst of your life.
jddh1
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New York City

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:03 pm

Thanks for the compliment jddh1. I just think at this time that Ferrari bear no guilt or responsibility for anything that happened in Australia concerning McLaren. If they did wrong, I'll offer criticism. But this time, Ferrari aren't involved and do not deserve to bear any blame for "safetycargate". Hey, gotta hang some kind of handle on it. lol
Beer is cheaper than therapy.
DaveKillens
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2005

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:05 pm

gcdugas wrote:It is always their job to check all the facts. Period. They F'ed up as much as Mac lied.

If trusting someones words is f'ed up I agree. yes, they could've listened to McLaren radio at first place, but remember that was the first race they could do it. I bet now they always would.

Are you implying if the FIA asked Schumi if he parked it at rascasse and he said no, that their investigation is over?

There's difference in that cases. And I'm comparing MS situation with first hearing on Trulli/Hamilton accident. in case of MS it was a case of possible deliberate action that put him into advantageous position. So MS was suspect and his actions were investigated including telemetry analysis.
in case of Trulli/Hamilton point of initial hearing was to find whether there was a violation on Trulli's part. So Hamilton was only witness, and in court you swear to tell the truth and noone starts investigation on whether you're lying or not.
timbo
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:08 pm

DaveKillens wrote:Thanks for the compliment jddh1. I just think at this time that Ferrari bear no guilt or responsibility for anything that happened in Australia concerning McLaren. If they did wrong, I'll offer criticism. But this time, Ferrari aren't involved and do not deserve to bear any blame for "safetycargate". Hey, gotta hang some kind of handle on it. lol

No hard feelings I hope. Just exchanging opinions for me.
cheers.
jddh1
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Location: New York City

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:11 pm

It is always their (the FIA) job to check all the facts. Period.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:16 pm

gcdugas wrote:It is always their (the FIA) job to check all the facts. Period.


So you're arguing that they did all this to cover their mistake of not checking all the facts straight away? But if they HAD checked all the facts straight away, that would have led to LH being punished exactly for the same reasons as he eventually was much sooner, that is, straight away. So they would still have done exactly the same thing, but without the reason you say they had to do it in the first place. According to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, the improbability of something like that happening might have caused the whole Universe to explode due to an inconsistency to the space-time continuum.
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 10:38 pm

andartop wrote:
gcdugas wrote:It is always their (the FIA) job to check all the facts. Period.


So you're arguing that they did all this to cover their mistake of not checking all the facts straight away? But if they HAD checked all the facts straight away, that would have led to LH being punished exactly for the same reasons as he eventually was much sooner, that is, straight away. So they would still have done exactly the same thing, but without the reason you say they had to do it in the first place. According to the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, the improbability of something like that happening might have caused the whole Universe to explode due to an inconsistency to the space-time continuum.



Yes, LH might have been penalized the exact same earlier but F1 would not have been dragged through the mud and made a laughing stock because of the incompetent boobs in high places. Trulli and Toyota would have been spared the grief as well. Yes, no, maybe, no, yes, well lets see.... uggh. Is that any way to run a business? A sport? Any respectable enterprise?

Isn't there something in the regs about bringing the "sport into disrepute".... except, of course, if the FIA does it.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:22 pm

vall wrote:It looks like they sacrificed their sporting director, like they did back in 2007 with their chief designer :)


Ferrari did exactly the same with Stepney, but have sinced kissed and made up, and it's old news now.
Shaddock
 
Joined: 7 Nov 2006
Location: UK

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:36 pm

gcdugas wrote:It is always their (the FIA) job to check all the facts. Period.


Like the fan footage of the turn where this whole debacle began?

I don't know about you, but in a sport as popular as F1, it's pretty much a given that someone will always have a better camera angle, recording, or perspective than the Stewards. Now, in this particular instance, the camera shot was phenomenally telling, and wouldn't always be.

But to shut the door on the potential of future evidence is foolishness. They made their decision based upon all they knew at the time. At the time. At a later time, they knew more, so they reviewed their decision with what they knew at THAT time.

If you were in that position, had to make a decision based upon the best information available at a certain moment, and then found out that better information was available, wouldn't you want to revisit the decision?
The FOZ
 
Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Location: Winterpeg, Canada

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:39 pm

Meanwhile..the whole issue becomes even more interesting/funny (whether someone is LH fan or not) if one considers Toyota had been punished for cheating on Saturday, and then declared they had to review their equipment in the factory as they are supposed to have checked their wings using double the load FIA does. Now THAT might be a lie, or it might not. Still some people refuse to accept that ALL teams cheat in F1, but it only matters if you get caught (and even more so if you lie about it).
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Fri Apr 03, 2009 11:52 pm

The FOZ wrote:
gcdugas wrote:It is always their (the FIA) job to check all the facts. Period.


Like the fan footage of the turn where this whole debacle began?

I don't know about you, but in a sport as popular as F1, it's pretty much a given that someone will always have a better camera angle, recording, or perspective than the Stewards. Now, in this particular instance, the camera shot was phenomenally telling, and wouldn't always be.

But to shut the door on the potential of future evidence is foolishness. They made their decision based upon all they knew at the time. At the time. At a later time, they knew more, so they reviewed their decision with what they knew at THAT time.

If you were in that position, had to make a decision based upon the best information available at a certain moment, and then found out that better information was available, wouldn't you want to revisit the decision?


but you make it sound like it was unreasonable to assume they would hve had radio recordings. they are in control of them...its not like someone with a mobile phone taking an otherwise missed bit of footage. i think they wanted to get an early night, and didnt do a very good job. that dosnt excuse anything that happened from anyone else... but they did a bad job
nudger
 
Joined: 26 Feb 2009

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