Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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I agree with Ciro Pabón. If true, such behavior is unacceptable. Period.

Many sports are attempting to retain integrity. And fair play and honesty are involved. What really irritates me is one charge. "* although knowing that as a direct result of its untrue statement to the stewards, another driver and a rival team had been unfairly penalised, made no attempt to rectify the situation either by contacting the FIA or otherwise;" Trulli was screwed by Hamilton's initial statements, and if there had not been an investigation, an injustice would have occured.
If these charges are true, then McLaren deserve punishment. And please, Stepneygate really has nothing to do with this, with the exception that McLaren's past history has to be taken into account when punishment is decided.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.

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Spencifer_Murphy
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Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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DaveKillens wrote:And please, Stepneygate really has nothing to do with this, with the exception that McLaren's past history has to be taken into account when punishment is decided.
I don't agree. Mclaren's previous actions with regards to anything other than their previous conduct in front of the stewards should have no bearing on their treatment in this instance.

I agree if they had previously mislead stewards or attempted to, it should be considered a second offence and thus the resultant punishment should be more. But, if for example you are being charged with, say, assault; your trial would be based around evidence for that crime alone. If you had once been involved in stealing some clothes from a shop it should have no bearing whatsoever on your treatment in the assault case.

The fact you've made mistakes in the past should not be used as an excuse to label somebody a persisant offender; because, to my knowledge, Mclaren have not been accused to lying to the stewards before.
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timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Well, I wonder why everybody is so surprised in WMSC hearing. Punishment for lies to stewards gotta be judged on higher level than between stewards.
And why seek any political motives? They did lied, and created a dangerous precedent.
April 14th gotta be political in and out but not 29th.

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jon-mullen
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Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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McLaren are totally pathological, they remind me of the McCain/Palin ticket. Make a habit of playing fast and loose with the facts and you don't know when to stop.

Honestly, I hope Lewis isn't punished too harshly, because he doesn't seem like a bad guy. There's just something obviously wrong with the culture at McLaren and he's their most public face.
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gcdugas
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Joined: 19 Sep 2006, 21:48

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Let's remember that the holy, pure, imperial, grand majestic FIA themselves have lied about statements their own stewards made. Here it is from the FIA steward Scott Andrews. He told them the FIA’s email was “grossly inaccurate and misleading.” Source


Face it, Max is an evil vindictive son of a N@z! bastard.
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ben_watkins
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Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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I can see all manner of preverbial hitting the fan on the 29th Apr.

The FIAsco and WMSC are not going to allow this to pass off lightly. McLaren will be made an example of, again. [Even with Mad Max being a total liar. He's been shagging whores behind his wife/family's backs FFS!]

My guess is that Macca will be fined heavily and loose constructor points, just how many i'm not 100% sure. If I were to guess, they will be excluded from gaining any constuctor points this season.

I also think that some major sponsors of the team will start thinking they not want to be linked with a team that attracts such negative press.
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timbo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2007, 10:14

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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gcdugas wrote:Let's remember that the holy, pure, imperial, grand majestic FIA themselves have lied about statements their own stewards made. Here it is from the FIA steward Scott Andrews. He told them the FIA’s email was “grossly inaccurate and misleading.” Source
But how can you defeat them? In my mind only by being transparent, truthful and cooperative with other teams. McLaren's lie don't help that.

vall
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Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 21:31

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Spencifer_Murphy wrote:
gcdugas wrote:No team has ever lied in the history of F1 before! Hang 'em by the balls over a vat of boiling oil! And we need a $200M fine plus exclusion until 2050. Zis ess verboten! Vee cannot have zis! Nine! Schnell!
LMFAO!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wonderful quote. I have to say I do agree in as much as while I DO understand the serverity of what Mclaren have done I fail to see how this is any different to:

FIA: Michael, did you deliberately park your car at the La Rasscasse hairpin in 2006?
Schumi: No. :^o

With the notable exception of the fact there is more conclusive evidence against Mclaren & Lewis in this case than there was against Schumi & Ferrari.

or even:

FIA: Ayrton, did you deliberatly run Alain off the road at Suzuka in 1990?
Ayrton: No. :^o

It just seems a to me that recent punishments against Mclaren (including the spygate scandal) have been a bit draconian.

That all being said I have no sympathy for them, after the spygate scandal and the rather hefty punishment handed to them, you'd have thought Mclaren would have been a little more careful in future!
#-o

I think you miss one important point: these were all actions taken by an individual. The teams were not involved, planed it or tried to cover it, which is the case with McLaren/LH. AS and MS paid for their actions I think.
It's McLaren the ugly team nowadays and you all know it. FIA letter doesn't leave room for guesses: they continued to lie even when confronted with their own recordings. For the love of Pete, what's that? Not even my children do that. I have doubts: I don't know if to call it stupidity or crime. I guess I have to settle for both.
Exactly, even faced with the facts, they still tried to lie :shock:

nudger
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Joined: 27 Feb 2009, 00:20

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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before you crucify anyone...just remember whitmarsh hadnt even arrived back from holiday before the second interview. basically, the same two people were spoken to, and the same two people told the same story as before. then whitmarsh arrives...does his usual corperate speak talk to the media, based on what (possibly little) he had been told.
i would say the fact that he didnt make sure he was back before the second interview...which he could have done had he a mind to...indicates that maybe its not anything more than ryan and hamilton that knew what was going on.
either way, to be honest i dont think it matters to the fia. we all know it will be a severe penalty, and i suspoect one which mclaren will not survive as a formula one team

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Spencifer_Murphy wrote:
vall wrote:Although I have been very harsh to LH, I start to think that indeed McLaren is to blame most. However, I must say I was surprised how easily LH took the advice of McLaren to lie! I mean, these guys have been competing all their lives. They must have encountered unfair behaviors, decisions, etc, throughout their careers and they must be very sensitive to this, not matter which way it goes.
Oh I agree, but I doubt they've ever come across something as crazy as being advised to mislead the stewards.
I disagree. Lewis knew full well what he was saying to the media and the stewards when he said it. He has not since admitted he lied! He has simply said that he was told to lie and did so, blaming all of it on Dave Ryan and the 'team.' He has not apologized for telling a lie that could have gained him a podium finish. He knew full well what he was saying wasn't the truth and he should be a fuc*ing man and admit it! Anyone who goes along with the team in a lie and doesn't stop and refuse should have the book thrown at them! I have no respect for someone who would say such BS with a straight face and think it's perfectly fine to blame it all on everyone without saying 'I LIED KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY'. He is as much to blame as Dave Ryan and it's ludicrous that McLaren would fire Ryan and not severely punish Lewis as well. I was a big fan of McLaren in the Kimi days, but now they are really starting to wear on me.

majicmeow
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Joined: 05 Feb 2008, 07:03

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Guess what, IT HAPPENED!! Who cares anymore, get over it. Nothing you can say about it will change the fact that IT HAPPENED!!
:roll:

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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majicmeow wrote:Guess what, IT HAPPENED!! Who cares anymore, get over it. Nothing you can say about it will change the fact that IT HAPPENED!!
:roll:
Actually, if it keeps getting brought up and a stiff punishment is brought dowm enough times it might, GASP, not happen again.

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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Ray wrote:
Spencifer_Murphy wrote:
vall wrote:Although I have been very harsh to LH, I start to think that indeed McLaren is to blame most. However, I must say I was surprised how easily LH took the advice of McLaren to lie! I mean, these guys have been competing all their lives. They must have encountered unfair behaviors, decisions, etc, throughout their careers and they must be very sensitive to this, not matter which way it goes.
Oh I agree, but I doubt they've ever come across something as crazy as being advised to mislead the stewards.
I disagree. Lewis knew full well what he was saying to the media and the stewards when he said it. He has not since admitted he lied! He has simply said that he was told to lie and did so, blaming all of it on Dave Ryan and the 'team.' He has not apologized for telling a lie that could have gained him a podium finish. He knew full well what he was saying wasn't the truth and he should be a fuc*ing man and admit it! Anyone who goes along with the team in a lie and doesn't stop and refuse should have the book thrown at them! I have no respect for someone who would say such BS with a straight face and think it's perfectly fine to blame it all on everyone without saying 'I LIED KNOWINGLY AND WILLINGLY'. He is as much to blame as Dave Ryan and it's ludicrous that McLaren would fire Ryan and not severely punish Lewis as well. I was a big fan of McLaren in the Kimi days, but now they are really starting to wear on me.
He did not lie willingly, did you read the radio transmission?
He was instructed to lie by his superiors. He should have resisted them, but you know what happens when a black man resists his superiors.

An example.
If you were a Prisoner of war and you were under interrogation by the enemy and you were Instructed by your commander to LIE to protect the mission. Would you tell the truth? NO! Same thing here.
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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
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Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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n smikle wrote:He should have resisted them, but you know what happens when a black man resists his superiors.
Keep your 'black man' bullshit out of this. It has absolutely nothing to do with this. I don't think McLaren told him to lie simply of his nationality. That speaks alot about the person you are and how tainted your view of the situation is.
n smikle wrote:
He did not lie willingly, did you read the radio transmission?
He was instructed to lie by his superiors.


An example.
If you were a Prisoner of war and you were under interrogation by the enemy and you were Instructed by your commander to LIE to protect the mission. Would you tell the truth? NO! Same thing here.
Yes, he in fact did lie willingly. He chose to tell a lie even though he knew he shouldn't have said it. He said in an interview 'he was instructed to lie, and he chose to follow what his team told him to say.' If that isn't going along willingly, I don't know what is. I'd like to know what you consider lying? Being told to lie is one thing. Lying is another. And your example doesn't correlate in any way. One is to protect lives, one is to protect nothing but a finish in a motor race. If you lied after being instructed to, you still lied. Willingly.

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shotzski
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Re: Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

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What boggles me the most is the fact that it's becoming a habit at Mclaren to shoot themselves. They should have known better, kept quiet, and get the 5pts from Autralia, end of story. No blame game. No witch hunt. It's just such a shame for a team like Mclaren to involved in so much controversy. I just hope they could pull things together and get on with it.

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