I asked this before with the spin Montoya had in Australia a few years back. In that situation on the formation lap, he spun, but if he got going again he could retake his spot on the grid. Does this apply to going off and back on under the safety car like Ringo and I asked? Anybody know?ringo wrote:You know, while all this is going on, truli is getting away with murder.
Even if lewis let him by, the only way for truli to be in 3rd legally is if lewis went off the track then he passed. Think about it, truli obviously believed that he was supposed to be in 3rd, so he passed fearing he would lose his well earned position, which he rightfully lost.
I dont think a driver can choose to shuffle spots behind the SC, so lewis was wrong for giving truli third and truli was wrong for accepting the pass. He should have known better.
One hand washed the other.
Correct me if i am very wrong. I dont know all the rules, i am just applying the same rule in the reverse situation.
Didn't Vettel say something about he thought Lewis had a problem and was slowing down in Fuji last year? I could have sworn he said he hit Webber because he thought Lewis was swerving hard right and slowing rapidly and he was paying attention to him and nailed Webber.mikhak wrote:the rules state:
- if any car slows with an obvious problem.
Don't you mean "No team has ever been caught lying in such a way"??timbo wrote:To my knowledge, in such way, none.gcdugas wrote:No team has ever lied in the history of F1 before!
This is very subjective (what you have in bold); also saying "he thought" may not help his situation. I still feel truli shouldn't be off the hook. A mechanical problem is not obvious until a car comes to a stop or shows signs of damage. The mclaren had no signs and it didn't leave the circuit.Ironically, Vettel obviously had mechanical problems, he was not passed for a while.So all teams are a bit cloudy of the rules.mikhak wrote:the rules state:
40.7
Overtaking will be permitted under the following circumstances :
- if a car is signalled to do so from the safety car ;
- under 40.15 below ;
- any car entering the pits may pass another car or the safety car remaining on the track after it has
crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car leaving the pits may be overtaken by another car on the track before it crosses the second
safety car line ;
- when the safety car is returning to the pits it may be overtaken by cars on the track once it has
crossed the first safety car line ;
- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10
below) may be overtaken ;
- if any car slows with an obvious problem.
It seems there is no explicit provision for someone going off the track! but maybe the part in bold covers it...you could say a car going off the track has an obvious problem, therefore ok to overtake..covers trullis pass on hamilton though as he thought hamilton slowed due to a mechanical problem.
Actually the way I read it even if the car in front stops - as long as it's not in the pits you can't overtake. So you could (theoretically) have the situation where a car stops on the track 'with no obvious problem' and backs the rest of the field up. I appreciate this is a very literal view but it is what it says in the regs unless i've missed something.So your saying you have to wait for a car to stop before you can pass them under the safety car?
If a f1 car is going slower than 50mph it usually means there is a problem, you shouldn't have to wait for it to stop.
I would think that this covers technical problems only, or at least it is not clear. I think FIA should clarify this point. I saw the youtube video and is it obvious that Trulli was coming back to the track. LH was well behind and he could have well slowed down and allow Trulli to take his position. A few seconds after that, another car when off track. 3-4 other cars were following it very closely, but none overtook it. LH could have done the same, knowing he was after SC.mikhak wrote:the rules state:
40.7
Overtaking will be permitted under the following
- any car stopping in its designated garage area whilst the safety car is using the pit lane (see 40.10
below) may be overtaken ;
- if any car slows with an obvious problem.
Earlier in the rules they have a provision for punishing drivers who drive "unnecessarily slowly, erratically or which is deemed potentially dangerous to other drivers at any time".Actually the way I read it even if the car in front stops - as long as it's not in the pits you can't overtake. So you could (theoretically) have the situation where a car stops on the track 'with no obvious problem' and backs the rest of the field up. I appreciate this is a very literal view but it is what it says in the regs unless i've missed something
This part of the rules is inherently subjective. You cant expect the driver on the track to know the facts about the state of the other car, many mechanical problems have no sign other than a slowing down off the racing line. A driver must make a subjective decision as to whether the car in front has trouble or not. And you cannot expect the following driver to wait and see if the car fully stops and decide its okay to pass. By this logic hamilton should have waited to see if trulli came back onto the road before going past him.This is very subjective (what you have in bold); also saying "he thought" may not help his situation. I still feel truli shouldn't be off the hook. A mechanical problem is not obvious until a car comes to a stop or shows signs of damage. The mclaren had no signs and it didn't leave the circuit.Ironically, Vettel obviously had mechanical problems, he was not passed for a while.So all teams are a bit cloudy of the rules.
By these regulations i don't see where LH "consciously" letting truli pass makes truli legitimate.There is no provision for driver courtesy behind the SC from what you have above.
So therefore I believe truli should also be penalized for an illegal pass.
Yes the other toyota of glock went off the track at the same corner just seconds afterwards. However glock was only slightly off the track and already had at least some wheels back on the race track when the other cars came around the corner. Trulli was alot further off the track than Glock.I would think that this covers technical problems only, or at least it is not clear. I think FIA should clarify this point. I saw the youtube video and is it obvious that Trulli was coming back to the track. LH was well behind and he could have well slowed down and allow Trulli to take his position. A few seconds after that, another car when off track. 3-4 other cars were following it very closely, but none overtook it. LH could have done the same, knowing he was after SC.
shotzski wrote:What boggles me the most is the fact that it's becoming a habit at Mclaren to shoot themselves. They should have known better, kept quiet, and get the 5pts from Autralia, end of story. No blame game. No witch hunt. It's just such a shame for a team like Mclaren to involved in so much controversy. I just hope they could pull things together and get on with it.