Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

[mikhak]

What i gather from this interview is that Charlie Whiting thought hamilton was lieing on Sunday!
Charlie seems like he knows what he's talking about, surely he should get a vote or at least could give advice to the stewards seeing as he was present at the meetings and asking questions. But then i suppose he is like judge and the stewards are the jury so its up to the jury to make up their own minds. I think the problem was the stewards went into the meeting with a mindset which was will we punish trulli or not, if yes then stop and go, if not then case closed.
This mindset wouldve been perfectly fine if mclaren had told the truth and not tried to get trulli penalised. Positions would've remained the same and mclaren would be kicking themselves for making the mistake of letting trulli past, case closed.
But it still remains open due to mclaren lying. I am eager for this WMSC meeting but it seems that Ryan may not turn up so we have to go on Hamiltons word given that he's pretty safe from any more sanctions and has as the whole mclaren team have now a (absent?) scapegoat who they can pin the blame on. I'm interested to hear what Ron has to say on the matter, he was on the pitwall there in Australia I believe.

And as far as that Adam Cooper is concerned, --- hell, all he adds to Charlie Whitings own words is look at me, look what i did, i started this entire investigation myself, what a great journalist i am that i can talk to Charlie Whiting and he always has time for me. --- hell just report the facts Mr.Cooper and stop fishing for compliments.

[vall]

.
"Jarno said that he was absolutely convinced that Lewis was either letting him past, or was slowing with an obvious problem, [But the stewards summarily dismissed his statement, treated it as a lie, and investigated the matter no further.] as the expression in the regulations goes. Therefore he passed him. Rather gingerly, he just sort of looked, is this right is this wrong?

oooooh, c'mon! You can't be serious! In almost every incident they investigate, the two sides will give different account of the events and the steward need to take a decision. But it doesn't mean that the side that got the penalty lied? The driver expressed his view of the events and that's it! The stewards decide what in their view was right or wrong. Do you suggest that every time someone gets a penalty after interviews with the stewards, we should assume that driver lied?

Let's face it, LH and McLaren got caught lying, and not just once! So, they need to be punished. And I think FIA should indeed try to clarify how much the team (MW,DR...) was involved in that fat lie! If it was only LH and DR, then fine, what they got is enough. But if FIA finds that MW, RD, or whoever, were also involved, then things may get very serious for the team.

[nudger]

[BTW, I could get on the pompous high horse of some people here and excoriate you for "lying" when you claimed "you never said that" and I presented you with the "transcripts" of what you said but you still insisted in shading the meaning of your previous statement when you said "I don't think he [Max} realizes it" as if that changes the effect of his actions. I am not trying to claim any moral superiority by "forgiving you this sin". What I am trying to do is to say that without an exact transcript of what LH was asked and exactly how he answered, we cannot tell the degree to which he intended to deceive. LH might have been trying to be cute and creatively evasive, his recollection might not have been 100% accurate as yours wasn't when you said "I never said that" when clearly you did say words substantially to that effect.

you are seriously scraping the barrel there.
you implied i had said thats mosleys motives were 100% vendetta. It is unreasonable to suggest that. That dosnt mean to say that once a situation arises that his thinking and actions may have an element of vendetta. That is what i said, and to suggest it is me who has exagertated or misrepresented is hilarious. give up on it while you are behind.

BTW...i am not anti mclaren. I think the vast majority of the team are perfectly decent reasonable people just trying to go motor racing. I know many of them personally for one reason and another.
My line on this whole saga is that they NEED to have a fresh face at the top just to ensure the survival of the team. My fear is that they wont make that change, believing they havnt done anything wrong.
For me, it dosnt matter anymore if they did anything wrong or not (im talking anyone other than ryan or hamilton)...something has to be seen to have changed or i fear it is curtains for the team.

[WhiteBlue]

"If Ron resigned to stop the hearing, it won't work," Ecclestone added. "This is not about the personalities of Ron and Max (Mosley, FIA president), it is about finding out if there was more to what happened than what we have already learned."

The consensus in the media seemed to sugest that there was a deal behind doors for Ron Dennis to step back to resolve the issue. I must say that I'm surprised by the move. I thought that Martin Whitmarsh was in the line of fire in the first place and Ron stepping back would only make them more vulnerable if Martin will be shot down.

Who will be acting team principal if the FIA forces Whitmarsh to resign? There could be some interesting developments leading to quick change in the known landscape.

Besides Whitmarsh also the other new guy Domenicali is under fire. Lauda is talking of spagetti culture at Ferrari going back to the bad old days and Coulthard says that under Todd Kimi would have never dared to leave his car and eat ice cream in shorts while the race was technically still on.

Both top teams are obviously in a leadership crisis and it will be interesting to watch how that evolves. To even things out a bit Joe Saward has called for Flavio Briatore's resignation (in a veiled way). I could imagine that Flavio calles it a day unless his guys find some speed soon. He will probably loose Alonso unless the Renault improves very quickly. Reanault look very slow compared to Red Bull and that is certainly not a diffusor issue. So we could be looking at a series of changes at the top of these teams starting next week.

[xpensive]

I think that's wishful thinking on your part WB, as long as there is a Renault in F1, there will surely be a Briatore.

Besides, my conviction is that Alonso will probably drive in circles around Heidfield this weekend.

[lkocev]

"If Ron resigned to stop the hearing, it won't work," Ecclestone added. "This is not about the personalities of Ron and Max (Mosley, FIA president), it is about finding out if there was more to what happened than what we have already learned."

The consensus in the media seemed to sugest that there was a deal behind doors for Ron Dennis to step back to resolve the issue. I must say that I'm surprised by the move. I thought that Martin Whitmarsh was in the line of fire in the first place and Ron stepping back would only make them more vulnerable if Martin will be shot down.

Who will be acting team principal if the FIA forces Whitmarsh to resign? There could be some interesting developments leading to quick change in the known landscape.

Besides Whitmarsh also the other new guy Domenicali is under fire. Lauda is talking of spagetti culture at Ferrari going back to the bad old days and Coulthard says that under Todd Kimi would have never dared to leave his car and eat ice cream in shorts while the race was technically still on.

Both top teams are obviously in a leadership crisis and it will be interesting to watch how that evolves. To even things out a bit Joe Saward has called for Flavio Briatore's resignation (in a veiled way). I could imagine that Flavio calles it a day unless his guys find some speed soon. He will probably loose Alonso unless the Renault improves very quickly. Reanault look very slow compared to Red Bull and that is certainly not a diffusor issue. So we could be looking at a series of changes at the top of these teams starting next week.

About Kimi, I don't think that him eating ice cream at the Malaysian GP has much to do with Domenicali's leadership. Kimi to me and maybe to many others has always seemd a little wayward I guess, maybe free spirited is a better description. Think back to Monaco GP '06 where a heat sheild or something caught fire, Kimi went straight to his boat and got pissed with his mates insead of going back to the McLaren garage. He probably gets spoken to about those things, and probably gets told not to do them, but at the end of the day, I think thats Kimi really. Not Todt or anyone would be able to change that in my opinion, he does what he wants.

About the FIA forcing Whitmarsh to resign, if that is what it turns out to be, I think that is just plain wrong. The McLaren group should be able to decide who heads their F1 team, not the FIA. Maybe I'm looking at it in too much a pro-McLaren view, but I don't see how this further hearing is necesary... McLaren lied as a team, the Stewards found out they were lieing, so they got disqualified... Should be the end of the story.

Ecclestone saying "it is about finding out if there was more to what happened than what we have already learned" I think is crap, what more do the FIA need to know? Who ordered who to lie? If Whitmarsh scapegoated Dave Ryan? This is bullshit, its none of anyone's business but McLaren's if that happened. Should Whitmarsh be asked to resign, he should be asked to resign by the McLaren group, not the FIA.

About Briatore being asked to resign, I find that a bit far fetched. I don't really think the guy wants to leave F1, so I don't think it will happen at least for another two years or so... maybe I'm wrong.

[Ciro Pabón]

... To even things out a bit Joe Saward has called for Flavio Briatore's resignation (in a veiled way).

...

Veiled way? If that's subtlety, I wonder what he had said if he wanted to be rude.

[DaveKillens]

For the record, I agree with what gcdugas has posted on this subject.

Let's talk about telling a lie, and it's consequences. To be specific, a far more serious meeting was held March 17, and during that meeting Max asked Bernie about his proposal for the medals system. In that meeting, and with witnesses, Bernie Ecclestone flat out stated to Max Mosley that he had spoken to all the teams and they all agreed on the plan. As following events proved, no one had agreed to Bernie's plan, and that in fact he lied.

So where's the furor over this? A very important meeting, one of the big dogs in the sport, and he's caught telling a pure lie?

Compared to that, what happened in Australia is small beans, and the teams and fans are arguing over what should have been resolved in Australia. Divide and conquer, Max and Bernie really are good at this.

[nudger]

i realy hope the fia take a sensible line on the 29th. if they want to deduct WCC points that s fine, a modest fine, ok. but more than that and it is absolute overkill.
i would also be very curious as to where this leaked letter came from. Mclaren say it wasnt from them, which makes sense, so that leaves the FIA. Will they investigate and have a hearing to establish the facts of a leaked confidential communication?
time to move on...just hope the fia agree

[Chaparral]

i realy hope the fia take a sensible line on the 29th. if they want to deduct WCC points that s fine, a modest fine, ok. but more than that and it is absolute overkill.
i would also be very curious as to where this leaked letter came from. Mclaren say it wasnt from them, which makes sense, so that leaves the FIA. Will they investigate and have a hearing to establish the facts of a leaked confidential communication?
time to move on...just hope the fia agree

Jeezus Nudge Id think McLaren have plenty in credit having forfeited $100 million last outing - they could afford to have a number of indiscretions against them before they had to pay the piper again - its b/s thats all it is - people parading as holier than thou - sorry the FIA dont work for me - you read any logical report on Melbourne and its small fry rubbish. Mclaren (as an overall operation) would have appeared to over react to the conservative in the situation they were confronted with - mainly I believe because the whole FIA thing scares the bejesus out of them - the FIA representatives in the Melbourne situation let them down and unfortunately they chose to fudge the truth - silly boys - but --- happens. I see in a few places they are calling for a full time set of traveling stewards to each GP so some consistency will come to the fore - well thats logical isnt it - how hard was that decision - common sense really. You have to wonder some times how professional this whole circus is - with the amount of t/over involved - who's fooling who - and are the punters getting value for money.

PS did anyone notice Toy Yoda were on the front row today........................nice work guys

[nudger]

i dont disagree with any of what you say chaparral,
however, this is mclaren verses max, so rule out nothing.
my view is much as whiteblue outlined, that the deal has already been done behind closed doors...with the odd leak here and there.
Ron going is not coincidence (my oppinion), thats part of the deal.
i expect some punishment, but not sufficient to damage the company. had mclaren not done as unofficially advised (again, my oppinion) they would be absolutely slaughtered.
we will soon see.

[ISLAMATRON]

Has any racing driver been penalized on track for an off track incident such as LH has in this case? I cannot remember any precedent for it... theonly thing I can remember is Enge getting thrown out for a positive piss test.

[nudger]

Has any racing driver been penalized on track for an off track incident such as LH has in this case? I cannot remember any precedent for it... theonly thing I can remember is Enge getting thrown out for a positive piss test.

there dosnt look to be any penalty on the horizon for hamilton...only mclaren

[ISLAMATRON]

Has any racing driver been penalized on track for an off track incident such as LH has in this case? I cannot remember any precedent for it... theonly thing I can remember is Enge getting thrown out for a positive piss test.

there dosnt look to be any penalty on the horizon for hamilton...only mclaren

He was already penalised points... for something that happened off track... has it happened before?

[timbo]

He was already penalised points... for something that happened off track... has it happened before?

But the whole story actually does not have precedents. Nobody had been caught telling lies to earn a position.