Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
kilcoo316
28
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:45 pm
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby kilcoo316 » Tue May 26, 2009 12:19 pm

"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


Did you ever hear such rubbish.


A total re-write of history. Button is the man that was beaten by Ralf Schumacher, stuffed by Giancarlo Fisichella, and shown the way by Barrichello in 2008.


How many years has Alonso's team-mate out-pointed him?

Or Kubica's? Or Vettels?


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


Can anyone make a strong case why Button should be considered a great driver?

Jersey Tom
238
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 7:49 pm
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby Jersey Tom » Tue May 26, 2009 12:45 pm

Hasn't made any silly errors, no? In wet or dry.

Other than that, hard to separate car from driver.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

ISLAMATRON
0
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:29 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby ISLAMATRON » Tue May 26, 2009 1:01 pm

I've always considered RB an above average F1 driver and the way JB is handling him this year is quite surprising... I dont know about most complete but definitely the driver who has made the fewest errors for sure this year.

And I wouldnt put so much weight on Ralf's handling of him during his rookie season.

Mitsuhirato
0
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:31 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby Mitsuhirato » Tue May 26, 2009 1:05 pm

kilcoo316 wrote:
"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


That is a bit extreme don't you think? Hill raced 4 seasons with the best car on the field (93, 94, 95, 96) and only won one championship and even then he had his task facilitated (Rookie Villeneuve and Schumacher not quite good Ferrari).

So far Button has won 5 out 6 races, has been very consistent in race, no mistakes so far and showed the ability to make a sucession of fast laps in critical fases of the race.

But I also think Brundle's comment to be a bit exaggerated. The car is not everything, but still a great part of his success. I still believe Alonso to be the most complete.

Belatti
82
User avatar
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Argentina

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby Belatti » Tue May 26, 2009 1:14 pm

He has the best car and is at least faster than Barrichello.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna

outer_bongolia
6
User avatar
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:17 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby outer_bongolia » Tue May 26, 2009 1:18 pm

kilcoo316 wrote:
"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


I am thrilled that there is at least one more Hill-hater. Hill was a royal ***-**** who trusted his car so much that he would take unnecessary risks. He lost a few races just because in his little brain a stimulus would tell him he could push the car to do things physically impossible.

Button is a more reasonable, better seasoned driver. He might not be the best, but he shows some Prost-like qualities in the way he handles his car. I definitely admire his patience. And off-track he has been handling things better than Raikonen or Hamilton.

Still, I wonder what would happen if either of Vettel, Kubica, or Rosberg were in a Brawn aside Button.
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan

sunny1304
0
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:29 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby sunny1304 » Tue May 26, 2009 1:20 pm

the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.

ISLAMATRON
0
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:29 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby ISLAMATRON » Tue May 26, 2009 1:33 pm

sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.

Conceptual
0
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:33 am

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby Conceptual » Tue May 26, 2009 2:49 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


I was never a huge fan of Alonso, but I must say that there was some very obvious favoritism at McLaren in 2007 towards Hamilton. I don't believe that Fernando "tucked tail and ran" as you say, but was lured back by Flavio in the absence of a better seat.

PS: Who thinks that Fernando is kicking himself for NOT going to Honda for 2009 as was offered? I bet everytime that Nando sees the Brawns zip by that he curses himself.

Some of the best drivers in F1 history were "best ride" whores. That is par for course, and I don't see a problem with it.

What I do have a problem with is the bashing on Button who has suffered immensely in the 06-08 Honda's, and now is hated for actually getting a GREAT car underneath him.

I think that many people just can't face the truth that their team/driver missed the boat this year in terms of performance, and feel the need to blame anything to fell better about their favorites' shortcomings.

donskar
22
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:41 pm
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby donskar » Tue May 26, 2009 2:52 pm

A question I sincerely hope some off you will answer after considering it:

If every driver in the field had a Brawn, who would win most consistently?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill

RacingManiac
8
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:29 am

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby RacingManiac » Tue May 26, 2009 3:10 pm

donskar wrote:A question I sincerely hope some off you will answer after considering it:

If every driver in the field had a Brawn, who would win most consistently?


I want to say Alonso or Hamilton. But both are hard on their tires. As Belatti said, Button is in the best car and is at least better than his team mate. Though I won't say he is necessarily "faster" per se than RB, but he is much better at managing his tire. That for me was a huge takeaway from the last 2 races. The way Button can handle the supersoft at the moment is pretty remarkable....there I just complimented JB...:D

I still don't think Button is outstanding in the same sense as I think of someone like Alonso, he is extremely fortunete to be where he is now, considering a bunch of comments from himself and Brawn over the weekend of how much "harder" he works now...as if saying he stops trying when his car was ---.... :roll:

ESPImperium
85
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby ESPImperium » Tue May 26, 2009 3:20 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


You both have the right point i feel, Alonso is the the most complete overall driver on the grid, but makes stupid decisions about what car hes gonna be in. Even up until Singapore last year there was rumors that Alonso could have gone to Honda, and after that win he signed the 1 year option with Renault after that win.

How time has changed, If Alonso had went to Honda (now Brawn), i feel that he would have been so in a driver swap, Alonso for Button. I feel that who-ever went to that team, would have done really well with 20/20 hindsight. Seemingly the Honda RA109 (Brawn GP BGP001) would have been up there, but on simmilar pace as the RBs if Honda stayed in as either a engine only supplyer or fully in.

axle
2
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:45 pm
Location: Norfolk, UK

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby axle » Tue May 26, 2009 3:24 pm

I think MB was a little OTT agreed...

But maybe he was also talking about his out of car persona too...

He's always backed the team even with the RA107/108 debacle.
He's good with the public.
He leads the team forward.
He's served his apprenticeship.
He's consistent and has shown an ability to deliver.

Now take your other big stars and see how many fit all those catagories...even Schumi struggled with the 2nd.
- Axle

ISLAMATRON
0
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:29 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby ISLAMATRON » Tue May 26, 2009 3:26 pm

Conceptual wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


I was never a huge fan of Alonso, but I must say that there was some very obvious favoritism at McLaren in 2007 towards Hamilton. I don't believe that Fernando "tucked tail and ran" as you say, but was lured back by Flavio in the absence of a better seat.


The only favoritism at McLaren in 2007 was in Alonso's favor until Alonso tried to sabotage and then blackmail the team in Hungary...

"The FIA have even gone so far as to appoint a special steward to ensure Alonso and Lewis Hamilton receive equal treatment at McLaren this weekend as both fight for the world championship, following complaints by Alonso and Spanish motor sport federation head Carlos Gracia"

and we all know how the FIA likes to come down on McLaren, so we would have heard something.

Alonso had his chance and blew it.

The best driver in an all Brawn spec GP1 category would probly be Hamilton on most weekends IMO.... but man it would sure be interesting.

Ciro Pabón
218
User avatar
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

Postby Ciro Pabón » Tue May 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Anybody would have thought after the last five races that "it is the car, stupid!", but hey, Brundle has some miles under his belt. He can say whatever he wants. I do. 8)

I think Donskar is right. All you can say is that Button has won over Barrichello in five races. Yes, Button is good. All them are good, if you ask me, even Nakajima.

However, frequent changes in regulations make hard to distinguish the better driver, and, let's be frank, even with Alonso and Kimi on board, the current generation seems more or less even.

After spending billions and trillions in new regulations against driver aids, wings for overtaking, KERS and the such, FIA allowed the DDD to put some very good drivers to suffer at the bottom of the grid.

This has benefited the less expected. Button and Barrichello. Vettel. Even Webber.

I think that FIA allowed the changes in pecking order (a bit) on purpose, with its ruling about DDD.

So, britons can be satisfied and chant victory (hey, everybody deserves 15 minutes of happiness, even me!)

On the other hand, FIA is playing with the careers of those drivers, that, like Honda, look like morons.

Kubitza, Heidfeld, even Räikönnen "values" have plunged. Massa and Alonso struggle but they don't deliver. They won't increase their contract price in 2009, lemme tell you.

Now, I think Brundle was confused by the limelight. ;) He must have said "Brawn 2008 car and Jenson Button is the most complete package this year", as Captain Obvious would say.

However, if for "complete" you understand the driver that manages better his career and is luckier, then Button it is.

Congratulations, Martin and "fellow citizens", tell proud and loud to the world: "hey, we're the best". It was about time.

I would if I could.

For example, a venezuelan (Pastor Maldonado) won the last GP2 in Monaco. As soon as he wins the WDC I will become insufrible, I swear...

What's the point of winning if you cannot celebrate and make unhappy some of your adversaries? :)

If I were in his position, I would try to shut up Ecclestone, who has been handling british motorsport with little tact. So, go on, Mr. Brundle, rule the waves. 8)

THANK YOU NOTE FOR KILCOO316:

Many thanks TO KILCOO316, from the bottom of the heart of the administrators, for starting such a thread.

I'm thinking of bumping the "member of the week" thread, but with a twist.

So, any member who starts to fight about who's the best driver in history or similar will be publicily spanked.

If anybody in this thread mentions Jerez, the Nazis, the dead brazilian or the retired german guy whose name I've forgotten, then the thread will be locked automatically by a spider-robot-antispam-filter Tomba has devised.
Ciro




Return to “General chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests