Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

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Post Tue May 26, 2009 12:19 pm

"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


Did you ever hear such rubbish.


A total re-write of history. Button is the man that was beaten by Ralf Schumacher, stuffed by Giancarlo Fisichella, and shown the way by Barrichello in 2008.


How many years has Alonso's team-mate out-pointed him?

Or Kubica's? Or Vettels?


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


Can anyone make a strong case why Button should be considered a great driver?
kilcoo316
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2005
Location: Kilcoo, Ireland

Post Tue May 26, 2009 12:45 pm

Hasn't made any silly errors, no? In wet or dry.

Other than that, hard to separate car from driver.
Grip is a four letter word.

2 is the new #1.
Jersey Tom
 
Joined: 29 May 2006
Location: Huntersville, NC

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:01 pm

I've always considered RB an above average F1 driver and the way JB is handling him this year is quite surprising... I dont know about most complete but definitely the driver who has made the fewest errors for sure this year.

And I wouldnt put so much weight on Ralf's handling of him during his rookie season.
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:05 pm

kilcoo316 wrote:
"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


That is a bit extreme don't you think? Hill raced 4 seasons with the best car on the field (93, 94, 95, 96) and only won one championship and even then he had his task facilitated (Rookie Villeneuve and Schumacher not quite good Ferrari).

So far Button has won 5 out 6 races, has been very consistent in race, no mistakes so far and showed the ability to make a sucession of fast laps in critical fases of the race.

But I also think Brundle's comment to be a bit exaggerated. The car is not everything, but still a great part of his success. I still believe Alonso to be the most complete.
Mitsuhirato
 
Joined: 24 Apr 2008

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:14 pm

He has the best car and is at least faster than Barrichello.
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
Belatti
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Argentina

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:18 pm

kilcoo316 wrote:
"Jenson Button is the most complete driver on the F1 grid"


This "flavour of the month" stuff from F1 journos has passed from pathetic to embarassing. Button is an average driver in a brilliant car. A Damon Hill of this decade.


I am thrilled that there is at least one more Hill-hater. Hill was a royal ***-**** who trusted his car so much that he would take unnecessary risks. He lost a few races just because in his little brain a stimulus would tell him he could push the car to do things physically impossible.

Button is a more reasonable, better seasoned driver. He might not be the best, but he shows some Prost-like qualities in the way he handles his car. I definitely admire his patience. And off-track he has been handling things better than Raikonen or Hamilton.

Still, I wonder what would happen if either of Vettel, Kubica, or Rosberg were in a Brawn aside Button.
Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep thoughts can be winnowed from deep nonsense.
Carl Sagan
outer_bongolia
 
Joined: 13 Feb 2009

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:20 pm

the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.
sunny1304
 
Joined: 23 Sep 2008

Post Tue May 26, 2009 1:33 pm

sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Tue May 26, 2009 2:49 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


I was never a huge fan of Alonso, but I must say that there was some very obvious favoritism at McLaren in 2007 towards Hamilton. I don't believe that Fernando "tucked tail and ran" as you say, but was lured back by Flavio in the absence of a better seat.

PS: Who thinks that Fernando is kicking himself for NOT going to Honda for 2009 as was offered? I bet everytime that Nando sees the Brawns zip by that he curses himself.

Some of the best drivers in F1 history were "best ride" whores. That is par for course, and I don't see a problem with it.

What I do have a problem with is the bashing on Button who has suffered immensely in the 06-08 Honda's, and now is hated for actually getting a GREAT car underneath him.

I think that many people just can't face the truth that their team/driver missed the boat this year in terms of performance, and feel the need to blame anything to fell better about their favorites' shortcomings.
Conceptual
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007

Post Tue May 26, 2009 2:52 pm

A question I sincerely hope some off you will answer after considering it:

If every driver in the field had a Brawn, who would win most consistently?
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Tue May 26, 2009 3:10 pm

donskar wrote:A question I sincerely hope some off you will answer after considering it:

If every driver in the field had a Brawn, who would win most consistently?


I want to say Alonso or Hamilton. But both are hard on their tires. As Belatti said, Button is in the best car and is at least better than his team mate. Though I won't say he is necessarily "faster" per se than RB, but he is much better at managing his tire. That for me was a huge takeaway from the last 2 races. The way Button can handle the supersoft at the moment is pretty remarkable....there I just complimented JB...:D

I still don't think Button is outstanding in the same sense as I think of someone like Alonso, he is extremely fortunete to be where he is now, considering a bunch of comments from himself and Brawn over the weekend of how much "harder" he works now...as if saying he stops trying when his car was ---.... :roll:
RacingManiac
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2004

Post Tue May 26, 2009 3:20 pm

ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


You both have the right point i feel, Alonso is the the most complete overall driver on the grid, but makes stupid decisions about what car hes gonna be in. Even up until Singapore last year there was rumors that Alonso could have gone to Honda, and after that win he signed the 1 year option with Renault after that win.

How time has changed, If Alonso had went to Honda (now Brawn), i feel that he would have been so in a driver swap, Alonso for Button. I feel that who-ever went to that team, would have done really well with 20/20 hindsight. Seemingly the Honda RA109 (Brawn GP BGP001) would have been up there, but on simmilar pace as the RBs if Honda stayed in as either a engine only supplyer or fully in.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Tue May 26, 2009 3:24 pm

I think MB was a little OTT agreed...

But maybe he was also talking about his out of car persona too...

He's always backed the team even with the RA107/108 debacle.
He's good with the public.
He leads the team forward.
He's served his apprenticeship.
He's consistent and has shown an ability to deliver.

Now take your other big stars and see how many fit all those catagories...even Schumi struggled with the 2nd.
- Axle
axle
 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK

Post Tue May 26, 2009 3:26 pm

Conceptual wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:
sunny1304 wrote:the winning driver always gets such complement.

and the british media always over react on their stars.

Button is a good driver but not the most complete driver.

you can say ALONSO has the elements of a complete driver.


except the sense to put himself in the best car... well he had it with the move to McLaren but couldnt beat a rookie., so tucked his tail and ran back to Renault, we'll see if a much talked about move to Ferrari proves to be fruitfull... I'm still waiting for him to transfer that 6 tenths he brought to McLaren back to Renault.

Prost always had a way of finding the best car to race in, but just couldnt beat Senna in equal equipment, thats why he retired when Senna moved to Williams.


I was never a huge fan of Alonso, but I must say that there was some very obvious favoritism at McLaren in 2007 towards Hamilton. I don't believe that Fernando "tucked tail and ran" as you say, but was lured back by Flavio in the absence of a better seat.


The only favoritism at McLaren in 2007 was in Alonso's favor until Alonso tried to sabotage and then blackmail the team in Hungary...

"The FIA have even gone so far as to appoint a special steward to ensure Alonso and Lewis Hamilton receive equal treatment at McLaren this weekend as both fight for the world championship, following complaints by Alonso and Spanish motor sport federation head Carlos Gracia"

and we all know how the FIA likes to come down on McLaren, so we would have heard something.

Alonso had his chance and blew it.

The best driver in an all Brawn spec GP1 category would probly be Hamilton on most weekends IMO.... but man it would sure be interesting.
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Tue May 26, 2009 3:33 pm

Anybody would have thought after the last five races that "it is the car, stupid!", but hey, Brundle has some miles under his belt. He can say whatever he wants. I do. 8)

I think Donskar is right. All you can say is that Button has won over Barrichello in five races. Yes, Button is good. All them are good, if you ask me, even Nakajima.

However, frequent changes in regulations make hard to distinguish the better driver, and, let's be frank, even with Alonso and Kimi on board, the current generation seems more or less even.

After spending billions and trillions in new regulations against driver aids, wings for overtaking, KERS and the such, FIA allowed the DDD to put some very good drivers to suffer at the bottom of the grid.

This has benefited the less expected. Button and Barrichello. Vettel. Even Webber.

I think that FIA allowed the changes in pecking order (a bit) on purpose, with its ruling about DDD.

So, britons can be satisfied and chant victory (hey, everybody deserves 15 minutes of happiness, even me!)

On the other hand, FIA is playing with the careers of those drivers, that, like Honda, look like morons.

Kubitza, Heidfeld, even Räikönnen "values" have plunged. Massa and Alonso struggle but they don't deliver. They won't increase their contract price in 2009, lemme tell you.

Now, I think Brundle was confused by the limelight. ;) He must have said "Brawn 2008 car and Jenson Button is the most complete package this year", as Captain Obvious would say.

However, if for "complete" you understand the driver that manages better his career and is luckier, then Button it is.

Congratulations, Martin and "fellow citizens", tell proud and loud to the world: "hey, we're the best". It was about time.

I would if I could.

For example, a venezuelan (Pastor Maldonado) won the last GP2 in Monaco. As soon as he wins the WDC I will become insufrible, I swear...

What's the point of winning if you cannot celebrate and make unhappy some of your adversaries? :)

If I were in his position, I would try to shut up Ecclestone, who has been handling british motorsport with little tact. So, go on, Mr. Brundle, rule the waves. 8)

THANK YOU NOTE FOR KILCOO316:

Many thanks TO KILCOO316, from the bottom of the heart of the administrators, for starting such a thread.

I'm thinking of bumping the "member of the week" thread, but with a twist.

So, any member who starts to fight about who's the best driver in history or similar will be publicily spanked.

If anybody in this thread mentions Jerez, the Nazis, the dead brazilian or the retired german guy whose name I've forgotten, then the thread will be locked automatically by a spider-robot-antispam-filter Tomba has devised.
Ciro
Ciro Pabón
 
Joined: 10 May 2005

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