Martin Brundle: "Jenson Button is the most complete driver"

[sennafan24]

As for the DNF of Lewis having 13 and Button having 8:
Button: 6 mechanical issues and 2 accidents (which he was complete victim in both),
Lewis: 5 mechanical and 8 accidents/crash.
(Actually 2 of those Button's and 1 of those Lewis'es retirement can be considered strategic retirement as they chose to retire when they are out of points). The difference of DNFs comes from accidents.

2011 example of Micheal and Nico I think highlights their qualifying and race performances being quite different.

Lewis retired from the lead three times in 2012, none of which his fault. In the space of the three years Jenson never retired from the lead, he did retire from second in Monza 2012.

In 2012, Hulky, Pastor and Romain were at fault for crashes that caused Lewis to retire. James Allen estimates that Lewis lost a staggering 110 points in 2012 due to pure bad luck, whilst Vettel, ALonso and Button all lost about 30/40. With the swing (points lost/gained by retirements) and with all things being equal in luck Lewis would have won the title. Maybe Alonso was better that year as he played with a car that was not as good as Lewis's arguably. But, Vettel enjoyed a better car and team most weekends, not always in terms of speed but in terms of reliability and efficency.

So with the strategic failures being equal if you are saying Jenson did it twice and Lewis once, the mechanical failures are fairly equal but they cost Lewis a lot more due to him retiring from more valuable positions.

You may have a point in 2011 that race and qualifying were a different story, but 2012 Lewis was better in both. Over the three years Lewis's bad luck cost him more than Jenson's bad luck. Yes, Lewis did cause himself more crashes in the space of the three years and was more reckless, but he also got shunted out more times than Jenson through no fault of his own.

[Emerson.F]

Hamilton v Button stats compared (highest respective tally in bold)

Qualifying
Faster qualifying time: Hamilton 44 / Button 14
Poles: Hamilton 9 / Button 1
Front rows: Hamilton: 23 / Button 9

Races
Wins: Hamilton 10 / Button 8
Podiums: Hamilton 22 / Button 25
Points finishes: Hamilton 45 / Button 47
DNFs: Hamilton 13 / Button 8
Best race result (inc DNFs): Hamilton 32 / Button 26
Ahead in two-car finish: Hamilton 24 / Button 13

Championship
Overall points: Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1
Highest championship placing: Hamilton 4th (2010, 2012) / Button 2nd (2011)

source: http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/h ... t-mclaren/

[sennafan24]

Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1

Yes, and this cannot be sniffed at.

Its a different car or at least modified every year bringing about a new situation, and in 2 out of 3 situations Lewis was able to beat Jenson. If Hulky would not have caused that accident in Brazil, there would be little debate to who was the better driver over 3 years I believe.

I always stand by you have to watch the races, as the stats do not tell the full story.

[marcush.]

Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1

Yes, and this cannot be sniffed at.

Its a different car or at least modified every year bringing about a new situation, and in 2 out of 3 situations Lewis was able to beat Jenson. If Hulky would not have caused that accident in Brazil, there would be little debate to who was the better driver over 3 years I believe.

I always stand by you have to watch the races, as the stats do not tell the full story.

but your perception does?

I don´t mean to be offensive but this is just fanboyism .all drivers depend on their teams and what is happening around them ...Buttons crew forgot to remove the blower inserts from the radiator ducts in Monaco and Vettel T-boned him in Spa
in a most questionable manoevre ,he also suffered a overtaking attempt from Hamilton which was kackhandedly performed
so what .Over three years ,Hamilton got better stats in everything but points scored and best finishing position in the overall standings but still the claim was button is more complete as a driver...not better ,not quicker but all in all a valuable asset to any team .
I rather doubt Hamilton ,Alonso or Vettel are an asset when things go wrong or not according to plan even thogh one has to acknowledge alonso is very polite towards Ferrari these days.

[sennafan24]

but your perception does?

I don´t mean to be offensive but this is just fanboyism

No, I understand I only offer a subjective interpretation of things, just like everyone else pretty much. It works both ways, if I am guilty of fanboyism, than so are the people supporting the Button argument.

I think Lewis is the more complete driver over Jenson, as I think he is better at more aspects that contribute to being a great driver.

[raymondu999]

I find it interesting how Button is approaching 2013, compared to Alonso last year. Aonso was all about push push push, and see where that gets him. Button has been more about going the alternate strategy, and seeing what happens

[PNSD]

The Ferrari was certainly quite kind on it's tyres last year, and the pace if the car relative to the Mclaren against the field differed.

The Ferrari was nearer the front, than this years Mclaren. With the tyres even more so playing a bigger role this season, Button choice of differing strategies seems logical.

He's led the last two races, and even if just for TV coverage, the strategies he's chosen have probably been the best choice.

[sennafan24]

I find it interesting how Button is approaching 2013, compared to Alonso last year. Aonso was all about push push push, and see where that gets him. Button has been more about going the alternate strategy, and seeing what happens

Despite my comments above proclaiming Lewis to be a better driver, Jenson has been really underrated this year. To get the results he has had out of the car he has been given has being nothing short of commendable. He is almost tripling the points of Perez as well, and remember Perez was seen as the master of tyre management last year.

Whilst he does not have the raw speed or talent of Lewis or Vettel, Button is a crafty and clever driver. I think he warrants the "big 4" becoming "the big 5" He always makes the most out of his gameplan, and can adjust well if that plan does not work out exactly as planned.

[SiLo]

Personally I think Hamilton would have been doing a better job, but it's all just heresay really.

[beelsebob]

Personally I think Hamilton would have been doing a better job, but it's all just heresay really.

To me, there's no question that Hamilton would be doing a better job. He demonstrated over 3 years that he was a better driver than Button. Even in the year that he did worse than Button it was mostly down to what's currently happening to Checo – the drivers and stewards are latching onto 1 or 2 incidents to make sure that things are penalised when they should not be. The crash that put him out in Canada 2011 was cut and dried Button's fault; the crash in Monaco was cut and dried Maldonado's fault, etc. In 2012 Hamilton would have utterly destroyed Button were it not for the team's failings.

I realise this is a fairly fan boyish position, but from where I'm standing, Hamilton demolished Button in pretty much every sense. Button is far from the most complete driver, and MB's statement was almost certainly a politicised statement aimed at gaining the favour of the majority of british fans (who he's broadcasting to, and who mostly support Button).

Frankly, claiming that David Coulthard, Mark Webber or Rubens Barichello were the most complete drivers would have about as much standing. All three are(were) solid drivers who will bring home results, but not by a long shot "complete" drivers who can actually fight for championships.

[marcush.]

3 years with Hamilton have clearly shown Hamilton has a raw speed edge over Button ,at least on most of the weekends -with some exceptions -Spa THE Driver TRACK -a notable one .
Hamilton has not outscored Button by a huge margin but Button was more consistant even though he had a horrible patch when nothing went good for him in 2012 as well.
So in a ways it is all gut feeling but statistics just do not bolster the idea Hamilton would have fared significantly better than Button this year.
I might be terribly wrong though but by the looks of things Perez will take some time to match button overall and no ways he has been able to edge closer to jenson so far.On good days he is just as quick but Jenson is delivering for more often...as was the case with Hamilton -who without a doubt is living on a different planet speedwise .

Button bagged one championship by the way and is on equal terms to Hamilton in that respect

[beelsebob]

Button bagged one championship by the way and is on equal terms to Hamilton in that respect

No, Brawn bagged one championship, and Button nearly threw it away. By comparison, you could make a pretty strong argument than Hamilton "bagged" 2 championships, and that McLaren *did* throw one of them away.

[sennafan24]

I am bored of Lewis vs Jenson, plus I got in trouble in another thread for comparing drivers directly, so I will ignore Lewis in this debate.

I think Button can be patchy, I mean several drivers have off years like Mika (2001) and Alonso (2004), and even years that are not as strong as others, Senna (1992) and Schumi (1993) But, Button has peaks and valley's more than most. 2010 and 2011 he was superb, one of the best on the grid. 2009 was a year of two half's, yes he did have the best car for the 1st half, but he did race very well to make the most of it. A comparison could be drawn to Vettel so far this year, yes they have the best car but their performances enhance and make the most out the car. The second half, Red Bull did catch up, but he did let the pressure affect his performance.

2012 other than a few races was terrible for Jenson, I thought he was on the way of Webber (over the hill) however, this year proves it was a valley among the peaks in my view. In the 2013 McLaren, I am only 100% confident Alonso could beat Button's performance by a significant margin. The other top drivers probably could as well, but I am not 100% sure, I would not bet my life on it.

Button at this moment is the most underrated driver on the grid right now.

[GrizzleBoy]

Most underrated driver?

He's simply driving at the speed of the car with his only opposition being an over hyped Sergio Perez who (only reached any podiums due to Pirelli lottery/alternate strategies and) is trying too hard.

If this was 2012 and Button was finishing outside the top 5/6 so consistently but with Perez as a team mate doing worse instead of Hamilton who did better, we'd probably all been praising Button in 2012 instead of calling it one of his worst years ever.

He isn't doing much more than driving the car. I don't remember a single moment of excitement in 2013. What has he done that's this special?

[sennafan24]

What has he done that's this special?

The Mclaren is horribly off pace.

I have been described as a "Lewis fanboy" on here, but even I have to doubt he would be getting many podiums. Jenson is being crafty and strategic, and dragging results out of a car that in the hands of other drivers would be struggling for points. I think that it takes driver who thinks on the job more, rather than a pure pace driver to get the most out the McLaren this year, the pace is not there so drivers would have to find other ways to get results.

Perez was seen as a hot prospect last year, people really rated him. It was partially on merit as well, he could conserve his tyres well through a race, that takes a certain amount of driver talent. This netted him podium finishes in what was considered a mid-field car. Button is showing him up to such a extent, it is hard not to be impressed.

If Button was not there this year, and say a Di Resta or Sutil was in his place, McLaren would be shown up more than any time in recent memory.