So what happened to the new teams?

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Chaparral
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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richard_leeds wrote:
Chaparral wrote:renaming the series 'The Grand Prix World Series' or 'The Grand Prix World Championship' and making it work in America
Please, please , please .. not another sporting "world series" that only includes America!
Richard - yes I know but for the American market thats the way it goes - lets face it the biggest market globally by far and it isnt being catered for and in reality could never be by the current 'high tech high brow' F1 brigade - thats just a fact of life. Can you imagine a series where F1 technology is applied to both a mix of oval and road/street courses with a central marketing focus in the US with someone like Red Bull who have the clout to pull the major TV networks and other media - works for me. Currently we have a series which maybe lives or dies on what happens between FOTA and Mosley/Ecclestone and weve slowly lost some quite brilliant circuits to the costs of running Ecclestones events - it wont be long before Monza Spa etc go in favour of some circuits in outer Mongolia etc because of government funding and TV rights if the trend keeps going - Im a bit over it. Why not reinvent the whole ball game in the US where if you have the right ingredients you can make most things fly. Its just a thought Richard. :)
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Seems like Epsilon finally confirmed
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/75791


And now maybe Brabham joins the fray
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 4245.shtml

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freedom_honda
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Okay so how many new teams has submitted an entry? There are so many new teams I'm getting confused!

Scotracer
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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freedom_honda wrote:Okay so how many new teams has submitted an entry? There are so many new teams I'm getting confused!
18
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ISLAMATRON
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Alot, not 18, but alot... just goes to show you that Mad Max's plan of strong, cheap customer engines(cosworth) and gearboxes and a budget cap are actually really good ideas for everybody except for a couple of the super rich existing teams.

Why Force India, RBR, REnault, STR & BGP have thrown their hats in with the idiots from Toyota & Ferrari I have no idea.

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Chaparral
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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ISLAMATRON wrote:Alot, not 18, but alot... just goes to show you that Mad Max's plan of strong, cheap customer engines(cosworth) and gearboxes and a budget cap are actually really good ideas for everybody except for a couple of the super rich existing teams.

Why Force India, RBR, REnault, STR & BGP have thrown their hats in with the idiots from Toyota & Ferrari I have no idea.
What a load of crap with respect Is - its no different to your local council suddenly without warning charging you with triple the current rates for your property over the previous year i.e. moving the goal posts without notice and no dialogue/consultation - why wouldnt you stand united. Tell me what other major global sport (and I use that term loosely when it comes to F1) that doesnt consult its teams and various leagues prior to making such a momentous change - ( btw Im not interested in your answer and homage to Ned Flanders and the Bavarian team). The one thing Ive read tonight makes me think Toyota will not be there next year it was what Howett said or more how he said it anyway we shall see long way to go yet.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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FOTA 9 + Campos + Williams + Litespeed + Epsilon + LOLA + Prodrive + USF1 + March + Superfund = 18
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WhiteBlue
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Chaparral wrote:What a load of crap with respect Is - its no different to your local council suddenly without warning charging you with triple the current rates for your property over the previous year i.e. moving the goal posts without notice and no dialogue/consultation - why wouldnt you stand united. Tell me what other major global sport (and I use that term loosely when it comes to F1) that doesnt consult its teams and various leagues prior to making such a momentous change - ( btw Im not interested in your b/s answer and homage to Ned Flanders and the Bavarian team).
So other users post "a lot of crap" and can "--- off". Charming as usual, are we? With regard to the substance of the post I just find the old desinformation, like always. No dialogue/consultation? What do we have to make of the budget cap dicussions that have been ongoing for three years?

Scotracer, I would not be surprised if the number of new teams admitted would be five. That would probably result in seven of the FOTA nine making an individual late application keeping Ferrari and Toyota out.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 03 Jun 2009, 19:14, edited 3 times in total.
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Chaparral
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Scotracer wrote:FOTA 9 + Campos + Williams + Litespeed + Epsilon + LOLA + Prodrive + USF1 + March + Superfund = 18
Hey Scotty Im so excited by the new entries I near wet myself mate - what a salivating list of entries it makes - Im sure Mosely hasnt had time to change hands yet - he's a total tosser
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

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ISLAMATRON
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Chaparral wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:Alot, not 18, but alot... just goes to show you that Mad Max's plan of strong, cheap customer engines(cosworth) and gearboxes and a budget cap are actually really good ideas for everybody except for a couple of the super rich existing teams.

Why Force India, RBR, REnault, STR & BGP have thrown their hats in with the idiots from Toyota & Ferrari I have no idea.
What a load of crap with respect Is - its no different to your local council suddenly without warning charging you with triple the current rates for your property over the previous year i.e. moving the goal posts without notice and no dialogue/consultation - why wouldnt you stand united. Tell me what other major global sport (and I use that term loosely when it comes to F1) that doesnt consult its teams and various leagues prior to making such a momentous change - ( btw --- off WB Im not interested in your b/s answer and homage to Ned Flanders and the Bavarian team). The one thing Ive read tonight makes me think Toyota will not be there next year it was what Howett said or more how he said it anyway we shall see long way to go yet.
The big difference is that the FIA is not charging them more, it is forcing them to spend less, if the tax man gave me a tip on how to pay 1/3rd as much tax I would thank him... isnt that what people pay tax professionals and accountants for? Why are the teams complaining about spending less? That alone is proof enough that the mindset of the current super rich teams is all out of whack.

Granted the two tier regulations probly did go a bit too far, on track the cars should be the same, the capped teams should have only been given testing advantages, such as unlimited(except by money) wind tunnel, CFD, & track testing.

The idea that there was no consultation between the FIA & the teams is false, The FIA has already adopted all of the teams cost cutting ideas, and have been talking about a bugdet cap for some time now, but it is not enough, obviously as we have seen Honda leave and heard constant rumours of Renault & Toyota on the way out and Mercedes constant "re-evaluating". On top of all that the sponsors continue to leave in droves. SAR went bankrupt, Midland then Spyker had to sell and STR is constantly on the block...The FIA simply saw the writing on the wall and reacted. Ferrari or Toyota dont care about the small teams, look how Ferrari pulled out on Brawn at the last moment, if Merc didnt step up we would have never seen the brilliance of the BPG001's chassis. Ferrari would be completely fine with racing every season like the 2005 USGP, they dont care about the competition as long as they win, evene if there are only 6 cars running.

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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Chaparral wrote:
Scotracer wrote:FOTA 9 + Campos + Williams + Litespeed + Epsilon + LOLA + Prodrive + USF1 + March + Superfund = 18
Hey Scotty Im so excited by the new entries I near wet myself mate - what a salivating list of entries it makes - Im sure Mosely hasnt had time to change hands yet - he's a total tosser
Yes.

I hope you don't mind me using your reference to Mario as an inspiration for me avatar ;) :lol:
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ISLAMATRON
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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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Scotracer wrote:FOTA 9 + Campos + Williams + Litespeed + Epsilon + LOLA + Prodrive + USF1 + March + Superfund = 18

They asked about new teams, so I guess it would be 8 plus Brahbam(confirmed today), so 9.

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Chaparral
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The big difference is that the FIA is not charging them more, it is forcing them to spend less, if the tax man gave me a tip on how to pay 1/3rd as much tax I would thank him... isnt that what people pay tax professionals and accountants for? Why are the teams complaining about spending less? That alone is proof enough that the mindset of the current super rich teams is all out of whack.

Granted the two tier regulations probly did go a bit too far, on track the cars should be the same, the capped teams should have only been given testing advantages, such as unlimited(except by money) wind tunnel, CFD, & track testing.

The idea that there was no consultation between the FIA & the teams is false, The FIA has already adopted all of the teams cost cutting ideas, but it is not enough, obviously as we have seen Honda leave and heard constant rumours of Renault & Toyota on the way out and Mercedes constant "re-evaluating". On top of all that the sponsors continue to leave in droves. SAR went bankrupt, Midland then Spyker had to sell and STR is constantly on the block...The FIA simply saw the writing on the wall and reacted. FErrari or Toyota dont care about the small teams, look how Ferrari bulled out on Brawn a the last moment, if Merc didnt step up we would have never seen the brilliance of the BPG001's chassis. Ferrari would be completely fine with racing every season like the 2005 USGP, they dont care about the competition as long as they win, evene if there are only 6 cars running.
Mate I hear you - Im just not sure we (as mere mortals) hear whats exactly going on. Im sure the majors are trying to protect their turf as they would but I think they have genuinely made an effort to bring down costs and are in agreement to help new teams into the series and continue that cost cut - the problem has been as I see it Mosley (read FIA) has controlled the regs and in the last decade they have been so tight that any incremental difference on the track has cost tens of millions - that to me is wrong and to be honest it wasnt done with consultation it was just legislated. Ferrari is a different story I pretty much agree with you - dont stone me to death red guys its just my opinion :)

I dont know how this will end up I guess like most others I can only hope its sensible
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson

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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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ISLAMATRON wrote:
Chaparral wrote:
ISLAMATRON wrote:Alot, not 18, but alot... just goes to show you that Mad Max's plan of strong, cheap customer engines(cosworth) and gearboxes and a budget cap are actually really good ideas for everybody except for a couple of the super rich existing teams.

Why Force India, RBR, REnault, STR & BGP have thrown their hats in with the idiots from Toyota & Ferrari I have no idea.
What a load of crap with respect Is - its no different to your local council suddenly without warning charging you with triple the current rates for your property over the previous year i.e. moving the goal posts without notice and no dialogue/consultation - why wouldnt you stand united. Tell me what other major global sport (and I use that term loosely when it comes to F1) that doesnt consult its teams and various leagues prior to making such a momentous change - ( btw --- off WB Im not interested in your b/s answer and homage to Ned Flanders and the Bavarian team). The one thing Ive read tonight makes me think Toyota will not be there next year it was what Howett said or more how he said it anyway we shall see long way to go yet.
The big difference is that the FIA is not charging them more, it is forcing them to spend less, if the tax man gave me a tip on how to pay 1/3rd as much tax I would thank him..
If you're going to continue with the council analogy then it's more like saying that the council is cutting tax by 1/3 but is scrapping all it's services and changing the voting system at the same time.

I'm sure that none of the teams is averse to reducing costs but there is so much more at stake here concerning the governance and future of the formula than just the details of the changes. The fact that the level of the cap may, or may not be correct, is second to the way it is being brought in and the fundamental changes (a two tier championship) that its effect will have on the sport. FOTA probably see this as their last opportunity to have a say in F1 because if MM forces these rules through the teams that do remain will be powerless and we'll be stuck with Max and his whims for the forseeable future.

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Re: So what happened to the new teams?

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well some of the back lash has to be the forced budget.
sure if the tax man told me how to only pay a fraction of what i do i would be delighted.

but if he told me the solution to fire the majority of my co workers well i would be slow to do that.

the teams have become huge.
dropping the budget to 10% of what some teams spend is basically asking you to fire 90% of your staff.

imagine going to work and firing 9 out of every 10 people.
( ok it may not be that high but your forcing teams to do that)

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