Pre Qualifying for 2010

[ISLAMATRON]

there is no safety issue regarding the banning of tire warmers.

The IRL does not use tire warmers and they have much bigger speed differentials on ovals.

[Giblet]

I read in an interview with Hewitt (oops John Howett, Toyota), he mentioned heating the wheel rim.

Anyone got info?

[epitaf]

I read in an interview with Hewitt, he mentioned heating the wheel rim.

Anyone got info?

I'd be surprised if the wheel rim could carry enough heat in it to noticably heat the tires...
The rims are really light right? Which probably means low heat capacity etc, meaning compared to the rubber of the tires, it'd be an insignificant amount of heat?

Plus couldn't deliberately overheating the rims make them change size ever so slightly?

[Giblet]

shrug

I really have no clue. I didn't find anything in a remedial search that wasn't about tire warmers, not about heating the rims of the wheel.

What about new teams? Does FOTA support new teams entering Formula 1?
JH: We are happy to see new teams but we made it clear from the start that everybody has to compete under the same rules. Cost reduction was one of FOTA's founding principles and we have reduced the costs of leasing engines and transmissions by over 50%, with further significant savings contained within our proposed 2010 regulations. These include limits on aerodynamic development, restrictions on the use of exotic materials and prohibition of some costly technical activities, such as wheel rim heating, which don't add to the spectacle of Formula 1. We have proposed many effective measures to reduce the cost of entry to, and participation in, Formula 1.

When I google it all I get is this article I am quoting, an unrelated particles hovering around an answer.

[ISLAMATRON]

I'm thinking its the same thing, when they rip off the tire warmers there are inside and outside parts that warm up thewheel rim.... its like the damn thing has a 4 piece suit.

[bjpower]

I cant imagine tire warmers being that expensive.
it terms bridgstone will have to develop new tires to deal with not having it.
and then the teams have to develop new running gear to deal with the new tires and the cold starts.

but it will end up people putting the tires in some kind of oven to get them warm before a pitstop.
i dont think you can ban a team keeping the tires in a hot room.

they should know by now if you ban something the teams will find new ways, classic point they wanted to reduce downforce this year which they did but the ddd clawed back more than they thought the teams could. they will exploit any loop hole available if you leave the rules the same you keep the loopholes the same.

[paused]

I cant imagine tire warmers being that expensive.
it terms bridgstone will have to develop new tires to deal with not having it.
and then the teams have to develop new running gear to deal with the new tires and the cold starts.

but it will end up people putting the tires in some kind of oven to get them warm before a pitstop.
i dont think you can ban a team keeping the tires in a hot room.

they should know by now if you ban something the teams will find new ways, classic point they wanted to reduce downforce this year which they did but the ddd clawed back more than they thought the teams could. they will exploit any loop hole available if you leave the rules the same you keep the loopholes the same.

Actually that one is quite easy. You just make a rule that the tyre cannot have a delta from ambient of more than x in much the same way as the fuel rule (remember Brazil 2007). The FIA police it by ramdomly checking a tyres tempature before pitstops and if you are caught you get a stop and go penalty.

[bjpower]

but you are still then stuck with building some kind of tire storage unit to keep them x above the temperature.
the fuel rule is different there the teams try to cool the fuel to make it denser. basically putting effort in.
here you would be trying to heat it.
hell rubber will heat up a good bit above the air temp if you leave them out in the sun so they would have to invest in some storage unit.

I just really don't see the point of banning something that is essentially a toaster in blanket form

[DaveKillens]

Excerpt from the 2010 revised Technical Regulations

12.5.1 All tyres must be used as supplied by the manufacturer, any modification or treatment such as cutting, grooving, the application of solvents or softeners, the fitting of heat retaining devices or pre-heating is therefore prohibited. This applies to dry, intermediate and wet-weather tyres.

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/839C2B08FE7FE57EC12575A80045896E/$FILE/1-2010%20F1%20TECHNICAL%20REGULATIONS%2030-04-2009.pdf

Why is this regulation in effect? It is part of the overall plan to reduce costs. Although seemingly a small cost compared to some aspects of running a Formula One team, it still does cost money and resources. As well, it really doesn't contribute to the spectacle to the average fan. Sure, it makes for a few hairy laps for the drivers when going out on track with cold tires, but what the heck, it isn't missed or noticed in many other major motorsports.

[bjpower]

I understand the concept, but teams will spend more on the testing and redesign of there setup and more than likely new tires than they ever spent on there blankets.
I cant see the blankets being a massive expense.
has anyone ever herd the phrase
"well we are bringing some new blankets to the next race so we should be more competitive"

I just really don't see the point.
and they will invent ways around the preheat rule or at least spend lots of money trying. any way they can get any sort of leg up on the opposition.

eg would it be pre heating if i pumped the tier full of air at 400C 10 sec before the car came in?
i didnt heat the tire i simply filled it with a gas at the optimal temperature.
( ya its a bit nuts and may not work ect, ect but, they will bend the rules to breaking point)

anytime you change the rules regarding the car the costs will increase.

[ISLAMATRON]

The teams would be testing and redesigning anyway because of the ban on refueling(FOTA idea), and the change of size of the new fronts to be introduced next year. Regardless the teams would be testing and redesigning irrespective of all of that... all the teams make a new car every year and will allways test to check tire interaction as it is the most important aspect of handling.

Your idea that changing the car rules raises the costs is false, those are expenses they would have incurred anyway.

And no tire, tire blankets dont cost that much anymore(since they all have them already) but it takes alot of energy to keep all those tires warm the entire race.... and that is really just a waste of energy.

the teams will not try to get around this rule.

And it will be great to see which drivers are faster on the cold tires, and who can make their tires last better.

[ISLAMATRON]

Thursday and the teams are already heating the stupid tires... really truly a waste of energy.

[modbaraban]

Thursday and the teams are already heating the stupid tires... really truly a waste of energy.

Did you check the plug? Is it in?

Your idea that changing the car rules raises the costs is false, those are expenses they would have incurred anyway.

This statement is false. The manufacturers were reported to spend around a billion each to develop a V8, which supposed to be cheaper by exactly 2 cylinders

[ISLAMATRON]

Thursday and the teams are already heating the stupid tires... really truly a waste of energy.

Did you check the plug? Is it in?

Your idea that changing the car rules raises the costs is false, those are expenses they would have incurred anyway.

This statement is false. The manufacturers were reported to spend around a billion each to develop a V8, which supposed to be cheaper by exactly 2 cylinders

Good points... guess we dont now 100% but I do see some plugs "IN" just to the left of the tires warmer racks... see em?

The engine change was assinine and expensively so, a very bad move by the FIA... but that was an engine change... I meant changes like on the car or tires, but you make a good point nonetheless.

[modbaraban]

I do see some plugs "IN" just to the left of the tires warmer racks... see em?

Those are clearly for cooling icecream for drivers and such. It's expected to be quite sunny tomorrow.

Maybe scarbs will let us know if there's any point in warming the tyres so early.