Massa crashes after being hit by heave spring

[timbo]

AFAIK MS tested in Mugello, while Massa was on track at Fiorano.

[mx_tifoso]

Pics from Fiorano.

http://motorsport.com/photos/select.asp ... =2009&O=24

[Giblet]

OK.



That is an incredibly well healed scar for a face injury, after so little time to heal. I think the official Ferrari makeup artist, who has the tub of fake tan spread and a putty knife for Luca Di Montezezemololo, did a little work on Massa.

Regular application of vitamin E, silcon pads, and therapeutic ultrasound are about the only things you can do to a scar to help it.

[gibells]

OK.
Regular application of vitamin E, silcon pads, and therapeutic ultrasound are about the only things you can do to a scar to help it.

True. I had a bicycle accident a few years back with scarring all over the side of my face (not by any stretch am I implying it was as bad as Filipe's). I generously applied evening primrose oil day and night, and was amazed how quickly it all healed up. There's a lot to be said for homeopathic remedies for those sorts of scars.

[siskue2005]

OK.

That is an incredibly well healed scar for a face injury, after so little time to heal. I think the official Ferrari makeup artist, who has the tub of fake tan spread and a putty knife for Luca Di Montezezemololo, did a little work on Massa.

Regular application of vitamin E, silcon pads, and therapeutic ultrasound are about the only things you can do to a scar to help it.

he has done a cosmetic plastic surgery to reduce the amount of scar

[Alexpcenteno]

Check this out! A video from brazilian TV Globo with Felipe Massa showing his damaged helmet!!!

He says it was bad luck and that he is going to keep it the way it is even with the blood in his living room because he says its a part of his life!

You can see that the helmet split open and that the spring went all the way through it and hit his head.


http://video.globo.com/Videos/Player/Es ... ES,00.html

[zgred]

Unfortunately video is territorial restricted.

Acesso internacional

Os direitos de exibição deste conteúdo restringem sua visualização ao território brasileiro

[FLC]

Here's another link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XA3i5cG_dY

I'm not entirely sure the spring went all the way through.

[Giblet]

I noticed during an interview on Speed, that when he raises his eyebrows, only one, the good one, moves.

I wonder if there was nerve damage, akin to a stroke, in that one area.

That just might how he is facially though, or has naturally learned to not move that side during the healing process.

When i hurt my finger, I learned 9 finger typing to great effect. Took a long time to remember to start using it again when healed.

[andartop]

I wonder if there was nerve damage, akin to a stroke, in that one area.

No way. The facial nerve, which is responsible for movement of all facial muscles, is controlled by the facial motor nucleus, which lies in the brainstem. Way too far back to have been affected. Surely, some kind of damage to the muscles that move the eyebrow themselves would seem more likely?

[Giblet]

i meant the nerves that run to the muscles that control them might have been severed.

These can be damaged. The signals from the brain stem don't teleport to the muscles, they travel a pathway. When I spoke of my injured arm earlier, I may have mentioned how I severed the nerve that gives me sensation to my forearm down to my wrist. That area is completely numb.

I was within an inch of reaching the deeper control nerve, and having a limp, uncontrollable hand at the end of my arm.

I also meant the end result of half face movement was stroke like not how the stroke causes the problem.

These nerves run in a conduit, and once the flesh lines back up, these tiny conduits might not also line up properly for the nerves to reset.

[andartop]

It's just a totally inappropriate way to describe it as "akin to a stroke", just because it's unilateral.
Still, some damage to the corrugator supercilii muscle or even the occipitofrontalis muscle due to the injury or the surgery would seem much more likely imho.

[Giblet]

It's just a totally inappropriate way to describe it as "akin to a stroke", just because it's unilateral.
Still, some damage to the corrugator supercilii muscle or even the occipitofrontalis muscle due to the injury or the surgery would seem much more likely imho.

Why do you feel nerve damage is unlikely? It is just as likely as muscle damage. You focus on the stroke term too much. Unilateral or not, a lot of stroke sufferers have hindered face movement on one side I was only drawing a visual comparison.

Truth is neither of us know, I merely offered my theory, which is as likely as yours. Nerves are more easily damaged than whole muscles.

My muscles healed from my cut my nerves did not. Just offering possible personal related experience.

I had also said in an earlier post it might just be he not used to not using that side of his face and has to start doing it consciously now.

Again we don't know, but we have ideas. I'd love to know why you don't think it could be nerve damage, in your honest opinion. I understand why it could be muscle damage however.

[andartop]

Because as throughout the whole human body, the muscles that move an organ lie superior to said organ, which means that the nerves supplying said muscles lie even more deeply and further away, thus are much less likely to get damaged when said organ is injured.
In this case, you said you noticed Massa could not raise his eyebrow. The muscles that move the eyebrow are the ones I mentioned on my previous post. The one that raises the eyebrow is the occipitofrontalis, which extends quite far away from the area Massa got injured, as you can see here:

http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/imagescooked/9300W.jpg

The facial nerve supplies quite a few branches to this muscle, at various points across its inferior, anterior and posterior surface. In order for the whole muscle to stop functioning due to nerve damage, you would need to have most of those branches severed or damaged, or the facial motor nucleus itself damaged. In order to have the same effect due to muscular injury, you would only need to have some localized oedema right around the eyebrow, or the muscle attachment itself severed during the surgery or due to the impact. This seems much more likely to me. And yes, it should heal eventually.

My apologies to fellow forum members who might find all this a bit boring!

[Giblet]

Yuo only need to sever one or two of the nerves for this to happen. That was a nice picture of face muscles your provided, but has little to do with the nerves. Most of these muscles and their nerves lie on the outside of the skull. A deep cut to the nerves could still be true.

"the facial nerve" is a misnomer, there are too many.


Branch of CN VII Location of Lesion Actions
Posterior auricular Posterior auricular Pulls ear backward
Occipitofrontalis, occipital belly Moves scalp backward
Temporal Anterior auricular Pulls ear forward
Superior auricular Raises ear
Occipitofrontalis, occipital belly Moves scalp forward
Corrugator supercilii Pulls eyebrow medially and downward
Procerus Pulls medial eyebrow downward
Temporal and zygomatic Orbicularis oculi Closes eyelids and contracts skin around eye
Zygomatic and buccal Zygomaticus major Elevates corners of mouth
Buccal Zygomaticus minor Elevates upper lip
Levator labii superioris Elevates upper lip and midportion nasolabial fold
Levator labii superioris alaeque nasi Elevates medial nasolabial fold and nasal ala
Risorius Aids smile with lateral pull
Buccinator Pulls corner of mouth backward and compresses cheek
Levator anguli oris Pulls angles of mouth upward and toward midline
Orbicularis Closes and compresses lips
Nasalis, dilator naris Flares nostrils
Nasalis, compressor naris Compresses nostrils
Buccal and marginal mandibular Depressor anguli oris Pulls corner of mouth downward
Depressor labii inferioris Pulls lower lip downward
Marginal mandibular Mentalis Pulls skin of chin upward
Cervical Platysma Pulls down corners of mouth

The pictures I look at show many of these nerves close to the surface, and that lesions will stop them from working, not deep and unreachable by cuts.

I just don't see it as unlikely I guess