Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Callum]

Bernie talks about the situation:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78232

[Confused_Andy]

I'm glad Bernie said that, he's not got his head in the clouds for once.

[pp5585]

I really think Max should stop his personal vendetta, there is no secret that Flavio and Max since alternative championship threat, are not getting on well.

Max is really trying to kill f1 before next year, so there will be no more teams than FIA toadys. Look at Mclaren they are so quiet becasue they are affriad to lose F1 space for the future.

Hope Max will fail low.

[kilcoo316]

Here is the chronology of events:

Grid: Alonso 15th (on soft tyres - unlike the rest of the field), Piquet 16th
Lap 1: Alonso is up to 10th
Lap 12: Alonso pits to get rid of his soft tyres
Lap 15: Piquet crashes, safety car brought out. Barrichello and two Red Bulls pit prior to pitlane closing
Lap 16: Kubica & Rosberg both need to pit under a closed pitlane
Lap 17: Massa pits, problems with procedure means he drags the fuel hose out on early release. Plummets to dead last
Lap 18: Race order - Rosberg, Trulli, Fisichella
Lap 27: Kubica in for penalty
Lap 29: Rosberg in (from lead) for penalty
Half distance: Trulli pits, Alonso now takes lead
Lap 50: Sutil crashes, safety car deployed again


So for this master plan to work...

From lap 12, Renault would have had to know that Rosberg would have to take a stop-go for a pitstop that was yet to occur under a safety car that was yet to occur.

They would also have had to know Massa would have destroyed the Ferrari refuelling rig, derailing both his and Raikkonen's races.

That Coulthard would delay Hamilton significantly at a key stage before Alonso's second stop.

[xpensive]

Sensible post kilcoo, mind if I do a copy'n paste of it?

[vall]

I can see the parable with Monaco but this, if true, is still much worse.

Has everyone forgotten Jerez in 1997? I found Mosley and the FIA's punishment for Schu utterly pathetic.

he was DSQed from the entire season
what else was needed? imprison Schumy for 50 yrs??
Divorce his wife from him?
Shoot him infront of everyone?

well, in athletics/cycling/ect. if you dope and get caught, you get 2 years ban from the sport. What Schu did in 1997 is comparable to doping in athletics, IMO.

[ISLAMATRON]

:lol:

Here is the chronology of events:

Grid: Alonso 15th (on soft tyres - unlike the rest of the field), Piquet 16th
Lap 1: Alonso is up to 10th
Lap 12: Alonso pits to get rid of his soft tyres
Lap 15: Piquet crashes, safety car brought out. Barrichello and two Red Bulls pit prior to pitlane closing
Lap 16: Kubica & Rosberg both need to pit under a closed pitlane
Lap 17: Massa pits, problems with procedure means he drags the fuel hose out on early release. Plummets to dead last
Lap 18: Race order - Rosberg, Trulli, Fisichella
Lap 27: Kubica in for penalty
Lap 29: Rosberg in (from lead) for penalty
Half distance: Trulli pits, Alonso now takes lead
Lap 50: Sutil crashes, safety car deployed again


So for this master plan to work...

From lap 12, Renault would have had to know that Rosberg would have to take a stop-go for a pitstop that was yet to occur under a safety car that was yet to occur.

They would also have had to know Massa would have destroyed the Ferrari refuelling rig, derailing both his and Raikkonen's races.

That Coulthard would delay Hamilton significantly at a key stage before Alonso's second stop.

Ha HA to you... nice try... Piquet crashed on lap 13(or more precisely turn 17 of his 14th lap)... not lap 15 as you claim... although the leaders may have started lap 15. Webber & DC were lucky in that they were just approaching the pit entry as PK crashed and the team called them in immediately (on lap 14)
http://www.formula1.com/results/season/ ... mmary.html

Is it not very strange for any car starting 11th or lower to start the race on fumes and the soft tires?

After years of watching american open wheel racing anyone can tell you about the consequences of pitting just before the full course yellow comes out... it is like hitting the lottery... everyone(who has not pitted) has to slow down behind the SC, pack up and then pit when they are opened. While the lucky driver passes them all while they are pitting, it is even luckier in F1, because 1) teams must stack cars, and 2) at the end of pit lane there is a red light(instead of a blend line) and the lucky driver is guaranteed at he at the head of the field.

So Alonso, having been the only car that pitted B4 PK's crash was guaranteed to be at the head of the field. MW & DC just got lucky that RBR reacted quickly enough and they were just at the pit entry, & RB blew his engine.

Rosberg(and Kubica) was only important because of the incompetence of the stewads allowed him to continue running at the head of the field for over 10 laps before he had to serve his penalty... the stewards were more concerned with penalizing Massa, even though he was at the back of the field anyway.

NO matter what, Alonso would have been ahead of Massa, because that is the nature of the red light pit rule in F1, if MAssa had a great stop he would have been right behind Alonso, but we know about the difficulty of passing at Singapore.

And Hamilton was in the exact position, Massa would have been in if FErrari did not destroy Massa's race.

All in all a perfect plan by Flav and the boys, so perfect even that it is difficult to believe that Flav, being the imbecile that he is could have devised & executed it... but then again there are some intelligent people on the team.

As for Alonso, any driver looking for points from a P15 start would probably not want to start on low fuel, so there remains a slight possibility that he may have been aware/involved... its not like we havent seen him with his hands dirty before... Ferrari info in his texts, blackmailing his team and so on.

[Miguel]

Is it not very strange for any car starting 11th or lower to start the race on fumes and the soft tires?

Hamilton has done it more than once. In Melbourne, however, he wasn't able to profit from it because he lied to the stewards.

[kilcoo316]

Ha HA to you... nice try... Piquet crashed on lap 13(or more precisely turn 17 of his 14th lap)... not lap 15 as you claim... although the leaders may have started lap 15.

Which makes it lap 15 of the race.

Is it not very strange for any car starting 11th or lower to start the race on fumes and the soft tires?

On a street circuit?

Knowing the possibility of a safety car can throw the whole thing into dissarray.

It is not an unheard of strategy.

So Alonso, having been the only car that pitted B4 PK's crash was guaranteed to be at the head of the field.

If you were paying attention, you'd realise he didn't hit the head of the field until half distance, long after the safety car departed.

NO matter what, Alonso would have been ahead of Massa, because that is the nature of the red light pit rule in F1

Surely you realise Massa did not pit under the closed pitlane...

And Hamilton was in the exact position, Massa would have been in if FErrari did not destroy Massa's race.

I've already pointed out Coulthard destroyed Hamilton's race.

Massa was significantly faster than Coulthard.

All in all a perfect plan by Flav and the boys

Except it relied on further outside factors (beyond just the safety car), these factors being:

Rosberg having to pit under closed pitlane.
Coulthard slowing up Hamilton.
Massa's botched stop, ruining his and Raikkonens race (and Coulthard existing to affect their race also).



The basis of your "argument" is pathetic.

[mep]

well, in athletics/cycling/ect. if you dope and get caught, you get 2 years ban from the sport. What Schu did in 1997 is comparable to doping in athletics, IMO.

No, doping in athletics is in mototsports like using a illegal part on the car.
Like using traction control, or having a bigger engine and things like that.
You have an unfair advantage which is definitely not allowed by the rules.

Schumy did not got an advantage and it is not clearly forbidden what he did.

So first of all you must declare a rule who says that such a move is not allowed and then you have to define the punishment for it.
After that you can punish a driver for doing something.

And that is the way how they should act in all the cases.
That goes for the Schunacher incident, the Singapore race and for the lose wheel nut on Alonsos car.

Tell me why do they all the time punish teams just randomly without having any basic law and everybody of you just agree with it.
You should massively protest against such acting, it is like a dictatorship.

[axle]

The basis of your "argument" is pathetic.

Amen to that

[Moanlower]

well, in athletics/cycling/ect. if you dope and get caught, you get 2 years ban from the sport. What Schu did in 1997 is comparable to doping in athletics, IMO.

No, doping in athletics is in mototsports like using a illegal part on the car.
Like using traction control, or having a bigger engine and things like that.
You have an unfair advantage which is definitely not allowed by the rules.

Schumy did not got an advantage and it is not clearly forbidden what he did.

So first of all you must declare a rule who says that such a move is not allowed and then you have to define the punishment for it.
After that you can punish a driver for doing something.

And that is the way how they should act in all the cases.
That goes for the Schunacher incident, the Singapore race and for the lose wheel nut on Alonsos car.

Tell me why do they all the time punish teams just randomly without having any basic law and everybody of you just agree with it.
You should massively protest against such acting, it is like a dictatorship.

I believe most of us did protest by supporting the FOTA breakaway .. until FOTA broke under max's pressure and sneaky tactics. Pussies

[DaveKillens]

x

[Motornic]

:lol:
So for this master plan to work...

From lap 12, Renault would have had to know that Rosberg would have to take a stop-go for a pitstop that was yet to occur under a safety car that was yet to occur.

They would also have had to know Massa would have destroyed the Ferrari refuelling rig, derailing both his and Raikkonen's races.

That Coulthard would delay Hamilton significantly at a key stage before Alonso's second stop.

Well put mate. I watched the race again last night and I came to similar conclusions. There are far too many variables at play for them to know the action would pay out a victory. And if they did conspire to something here, If ever there was an impossible case to plead, this one comes pretty close. Very messy.

[xpensive]

What Schu did in 1997 is comparable to doping in athletics, IMO.

I sincerely believe that what happened in 1997 was a split-second decision, and obviously, the wrong one. It was not pre-meditated, unlike the administration of drugs. To me, it's a huge diference.

I beg to differ DK, as JV was closing in over a number of laps, the German had ample time to decide what to do.
- Besides, an F1 driver is supposed to make proper split-second decisions.
- Besides, the man has a history actions with similar intention, weaving was his trademark.