Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[Chaparral]

Yes but does X actually exist or was it a convenient way of giving Mosely what he wanted (ousting Briatore a very vocal exponent of Mosely) and a convenient way for Renault to be given basically a slap on the wrist (until X suddenly appeared the FIA had circumstantial bits and pieces) - I still think Piquet Jr lied through his teeth and I wouldnt be surprised under oath in a French court that Briatore nails both of the Piquets and the FIA if he decides to go the full ten yards - note Im not a Briatore fan I just think something smells in Denmark as the old saying goes

[SZ]

The difference is that Flav was the boss. He was part of the conversation, he let it happen, that conversation had his approval. That makes him as culpable as having his hands on Nelson's steering wheel when he crashed.

Whereas it would appear that X was a bystander.

Careful Richard. I'd agree with you that he deserves something more severe than X were those the grounds on which his penalty was judged (I'd even add that as NP's manager, not just the team manager, there's additional responsibility), but pay attention to the WMSC's ruling - it mentions nothing about his seniority. Specifically, it states that Flav is as complicit as Symonds - despite the two witnesses and Renault's own investigation contending otherwise - however Symonds gets a lighter penalty as he's shown contrition in public (Max's words, not mine). That's not something the FIA's quite fit to rule on. Nor would anyone suggest that the one guy you can pin down definitively gets five years, the one you can't should get life, and the guy that pulled the trigger gets off totally (do you really think the FIA would be as amenable to Pat and NP if a driver/spectator/marshal had died? Me neither.)

His seniority isn't a part of the ruling, nor did it change before X's evidence - so why does Max state that X's evidence was the determining element in establishing Flav's culpability? What changed?

I'm not defending Flav, I'm interested in a right to a fair and open process. Which this hasn't been.

(One almost hears the FIA's lawyers furiously typing out X's supposed testimony with the killer blow that renders Flav complicit and culpable beyond any legal recourse, ready to be 'leaked' ASAP...)

[nipo]

Hey hey hey... SZ and WB, one of you have to be creating fact / getting wrong info concerning the timeline of the events here...

Confused

In any case, this X keeping a secret identity means somebody is covering some truth. Who and what that is we'll never know for sure... unless Max/Renault is pressured enough to reveal.

[tarzoon]

Insider information

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individu ... essorx.htm

This is X and you you read his profile it explains a lot

[modbaraban]

[tarzoon]

MrB and MrX

[richard_leeds]

Another masterly understatement from Bernie...

"somebody will say that he sent a young guy out to what could have been to his death. It wouldn't go down too well, I wouldn't think."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 272812.stm

[ISLAMATRON]

Sparks ready to fly at Ferrari

Massa KNOWS... "without a doubt!"

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2019.shtml

cant wait to see the meltdown...

after Alonso destroys his relationships at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari where will he go? Campos?

[WhiteBlue]

Yeah, Ferrari could be heading for a Prost/Senna type relationship of their drivers. All Alonso can hope for is a quick and decisive lead in the championship to force Massa into a support role fairly early. If it becomes a head to head race Alonso will be doomed. Massa has the loyalty of the team and they will not screw him for Alonso with his dubious track record unless he really dominates.

[ISLAMATRON]

To me it all lies in who they design the car to suit more next year, dont know much about Massa's preferred driving stye or how similar or not it is to FA's

[xpensive]

All Alonso can hope for is a quick and decisive lead in the championship to force Massa into a support role fairly early. If it becomes a head to head race Alonso will be doomed.

And what would you possibly know about that?

[richard_leeds]

To me it all lies in who they design the car to suit more next year, dont know much about Massa's preferred driving stye or how similar or not it is to FA's

Agreed

We know that they have put efforts into next years car midway through this season. That could be seen as preparing the ground for Alonso. But Alonso isn't there so to what extent can they realistically tailor the car to his style?

Perhaps by developing the car early on, they will work with what they already know, and that will suit Massa. Whereas as Alonso coming in late in the day will be unable to change fundamentals of weight distribution and wheelbase etc?

Having said that, they have no doubt thought it all through in much more detail than we can imagine!

[WhiteBlue]

All Alonso can hope for is a quick and decisive lead in the championship to force Massa into a support role fairly early. If it becomes a head to head race Alonso will be doomed.

And what would you possibly know about that?

We know that Alonso has blown a gasket already once in such a situation (Hungary 2007). His track record shows that he caves in and does silly things when the psychological pressure from a head to head race gets to his nerves. That is fact. Blackmailing your team principal and actually snitching on the team isn't a sensible thing to do or cool at all.

[mike]

Sparks ready to fly at Ferrari

Massa KNOWS... "without a doubt!"

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 2019.shtml

cant wait to see the meltdown...

after Alonso destroys his relationships at Renault, McLaren and Ferrari where will he go? Campos?

i have to agree with massa, because they say that alonso is 1 more the most intellegent driver around so he must have know it, to chose a 12 lap fuel strategy qualifying in the back. if he has no idea about it then he is simply not good enough for F1, slow and brainless.

[richard_leeds]

he must have know it, to chose a 12 lap fuel strategy qualifying in the back. if he has no idea about it then he is simply not good enough for F1, slow and brainless.

Teams do sometime try a radical strategy when they are miles out of position in a desperate gamble that something unusual will happen. I recall Lewis had an identical strategy earlier this season, I think it was at Silverstone.

On your assessment if Alonso should have been suspicious (or stupid), then you'd say the same of Lewis, and that it is obvious McL were about to cheat in that race as well?