Wheel Covers Banned for 2010

[Conceptual]

Just another arbitrary banning of a forward thinking technology.

I hate F1 the more I read about it.

[Scotracer]

Just another arbitrary banning of a forward thinking technology.

I hate F1 the more I read about it.

Perhaps but you have to weigh everything:

Positives:

+ Innovation
+ More complex aero

Negatives:

- Increase risk of wheels not attaching properly
- Negatively affects cars following
- Look horrid

It makes sense to get rid of them for the first two reasons...the 3rd is just a perk of them being removed. It was not arbitrary.

[lkocev]

that's an interesting point. In no way do I dispute the point you have represented, but it begs the question as to why flow direction to the 3-6 oclock position is only applied to the front wheels and not the rears as you have alluded to.

Revisiting the discussion we had in the diffuser design thread a few days ago... If they are indeed used to redirect airflow under the car and increase the effectiveness of the underbody, that flow could likely be interrupted when the wheels are turned or there is some yaw velocity. This would mean that they would have the extra flow through the underbody in a straight line, but not when it is really needed while the car is turning. Without using moving aero elements, how could they manage to eliminate steering sensitivity from the overall downforce?

What thread was that CFD image pulled from? Is there a description of the simulation scenario used, such as rotating wheels, moving road, etc?

The image was taken from the thread started by LegendaryM, the poster was machin who said CFDesign ran the CFD for him...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6770&start=105
The post where he shares that is on page 8 (if i havn't already linked it to page ... its all in that post, the air and ground speed ect. However he didn't actually mention anything about if the wheels were actually rotating or not...

In any case you'll get some enjoyment out of that thread, they havn't posted in it for a while, but some great ideas and an excellent display of 3D modeling ability by both machin and particularly LegendaryM.

[newbie]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Basically what is happening is that they are making the air more turublent, meaning the turbulent air is making the front wing of the following car loose downforce and thus not able to follow as close as they are loosing a signifacant %age of downforce. It means that a car cant get out from the small pocket they are driving in to make a pass as the air isnt dissapating outwards, its dissapating rearward.

Im thinking its more like this immage ive tried to illustrate, Blue (Top) is with bin covers, the red (Bottom) is without bin covers:

Without saying too much, the effect of the wheel covers is exactly the opposite of what you sketched. They help draw the wheel wake further out and so if you are closely following a car with the covers, you might even have a benefit of being in slightly cleaner air.

[vasia]

Just another arbitrary banning of a forward thinking technology.

I hate F1 the more I read about it.

I wouldn't be too concerned. The more they ban, the more it forces teams to come up with more ever-clever and ingenious innovations and solutions. It's impossible to completely stop the progress of human ingenuity and imagination.

[Michiba]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Basically what is happening is that they are making the air more turublent, meaning the turbulent air is making the front wing of the following car loose downforce and thus not able to follow as close as they are loosing a signifacant %age of downforce. It means that a car cant get out from the small pocket they are driving in to make a pass as the air isnt dissapating outwards, its dissapating rearward.

Im thinking its more like this immage ive tried to illustrate, Blue (Top) is with bin covers, the red (Bottom) is without bin covers:

I think the flow may not be as simple as that. Sure, the cover on say the ferrari may direct the air as you have shown in blue, but if you look at the current Maclaren and Red Bull covers, they look like they're actually encouraging the flow you have outlined in red with their gurney like flaps

[newbie]

Word is that wheel covers will not be banned for next year as there has not been a unanimous agreement on the technical regs for 2010. There is still an option to outlaw them for 2011, though.

[Ogami musashi]

We face dull technical regulations at least till 2013..be it on the overtaking or the technological freedom side.


They will discuss the size of brakes ducts for months...

[Agerasia]

The red in those drawings is actually more akin to what the covers do. They draw air in via the so called cooling ducts and it exits at a lower pressure in the holes you see in the covers.
It's one of those items that gives minimal performance for a lot of turbulence. Hence the reason they are being banned.

[Michiba]

The red in those drawings is actually more akin to what the covers do. They draw air in via the so called cooling ducts and it exits at a lower pressure in the holes you see in the covers.
It's one of those items that gives minimal performance for a lot of turbulence. Hence the reason they are being banned.

I'm not sure that the ones of say the ferrari does that though. They and others are still directing the air down. It appears to me that the teams have come up with different ways to use them.

[noname]

The more they ban, the more it forces teams to come up with more ever-clever and ingenious innovations and solutions.

which are more and more expensive. tighter technical regulations are being put in place to reduce costs rising but the effect is you have to spend more to move forward.

paragraph 22, at least for me.

[Conceptual]

So how do they affect a car following another car?

Basically what is happening is that they are making the air more turublent, meaning the turbulent air is making the front wing of the following car loose downforce and thus not able to follow as close as they are loosing a signifacant %age of downforce. It means that a car cant get out from the small pocket they are driving in to make a pass as the air isnt dissapating outwards, its dissapating rearward.

Im thinking its more like this immage ive tried to illustrate, Blue (Top) is with bin covers, the red (Bottom) is without bin covers:

Another fairytale daydream posted as fact.

Do you have any actual evidence to show that this is anything more than a figment of your imagination, or is it once again just you "opinion" that you forgot to label as such?

The exiting air from the rim would have to be about 100 times as strong as longitudinal flow for it to look like that. Do you really have any facts to show that is really the case?

[Conceptual]

Just another arbitrary banning of a forward thinking technology.

I hate F1 the more I read about it.

Perhaps but you have to weigh everything:

Positives:

+ Innovation
+ More complex aero

Negatives:

- Increase risk of wheels not attaching properly
- Negatively affects cars following
- Look horrid

It makes sense to get rid of them for the first two reasons...the 3rd is just a perk of them being removed. It was not arbitrary.

More subjective bullshit passed along as fact.

I dont think they look horrid, you have ZERO proof of a negative effect on a trailing car, and racing IS risk. You could slow them to 30kph too, and reduce risk...

Everytime I return to this forum, I am reminded why I avoid it.

[Scotracer]

Just another arbitrary banning of a forward thinking technology.

I hate F1 the more I read about it.

Perhaps but you have to weigh everything:

Positives:

+ Innovation
+ More complex aero

Negatives:

- Increase risk of wheels not attaching properly
- Negatively affects cars following
- Look horrid

It makes sense to get rid of them for the first two reasons...the 3rd is just a perk of them being removed. It was not arbitrary.

More subjective bullshit passed along as fact.

I dont think they look horrid, you have ZERO proof of a negative effect on a trailing car, and racing IS risk. You could slow them to 30kph too, and reduce risk...

Everytime I return to this forum, I am reminded why I avoid it.

Conceptual, I take it you have read the Original Post?

I'll narrow it down a little for you:

Williams' technical chief Sam Michael said in July that studies have shown that the covers have "quite an adverse effect on the following car".

Bullshit indeed

[Michiba]

Does anyone know 'how' the wheel covers negatively affect a trailing car?

Williams' technical chief Sam Michael said in July that studies have shown that the covers have "quite an adverse effect on the following car".

I also find it a bit ironic that he would say that, given that Williams was one of the original DDD users. Surely the DDD has more of a negative affect in terms of the wake it produces (unless I'm mistaken).