Was Brawn allowed to remove Mclaren fuel rig?

[James]

Yawn! there is really nothing to warrant all that analysis

When the team behind you pits you have to hold your cables in so they can leave. The brawn mechanics were letting the force india driver leave

Kovi stopped as soon as he knew there was problems, just happened to be in front of the brawns. With fuel and fire behind you it would be daft to do anything other than stop immediately and off line

The Brawn chaps kindly helped kovi out and thus cleared their pit box

The fines are proportional to how much you affect the other driver. Slowing them down to avoid contact - small, setting them on fire - big!

[komninosm]

Yawn! there is really nothing to warrant all that analysis

When the team behind you pits you have to hold your cables in so they can leave. The brawn mechanics were letting the force india driver leave

Kovi stopped as soon as he knew there was problems, just happened to be in front of the brawns. With fuel and fire behind you it would be daft to do anything other than stop immediately and off line

The Brawn chaps kindly helped kovi out and thus cleared their pit box

The fines are proportional to how much you affect the other driver. Slowing them down to avoid contact - small, setting them on fire - big!

Well there's already some idiots who say that they did it on purpose. There's even some comments in the YouTube video we linked to. And probably here too.

Fines should be proportional to what rule you break, not the outcome. If you cheat with lower car weight you should be penalized regardless of if you finish 1st, 3rd, 8th or 12th.
Massa left with the fuel hose attached and nearly crashed into another car because he was released unsafely. Heikki was not released unsafely (he was well ahead of Rai) and only had the hose attached. It was pure luck that Massa didn't spray another car and cause a fire. He nearly crashed into one though. I thing the fines imposed are wrong. Heikki should not get a 25 second penalty. He barely should have gotten a drive through (which is less damaging for reasons I already laid out) and McLaren should be fined less than 10k to be fair. Already you see people in this thread inventing rules:

10K for Ferrari, 50K for McLaren.
When there is already one incident, the next one is absolutely normal to be much higher. The team that had the problem is irrelevant.

[mep]

I am just curious if Brawn GP should be penalized for removing Mclaren detached fuel hose. Just imagine what will happen to last year Singapore GP result if Massa got the same kind of assistance

Why are people asking for punishments all the time??
There are already way too much punishments for peanuts.
Things like that destroy this unique show.

[komninosm]

I am just curious if Brawn GP should be penalized for removing Mclaren detached fuel hose. Just imagine what will happen to last year Singapore GP result if Massa got the same kind of assistance

Why are people asking for punishments all the time??
There are already way too much punishments for peanuts.
Things like that destroy this unique show.

Not to mention why are people asking irrelevant self-serving what-ifs.

[genius83]

Yawn! there is really nothing to warrant all that analysis

When the team behind you pits you have to hold your cables in so they can leave. The brawn mechanics were letting the force india driver leave

Kovi stopped as soon as he knew there was problems, just happened to be in front of the brawns. With fuel and fire behind you it would be daft to do anything other than stop immediately and off line

The Brawn chaps kindly helped kovi out and thus cleared their pit box

The fines are proportional to how much you affect the other driver. Slowing them down to avoid contact - small, setting them on fire - big!

Well there's already some idiots who say that they did it on purpose. There's even some comments in the YouTube video we linked to. And probably here too.

Fines should be proportional to what rule you break, not the outcome. If you cheat with lower car weight you should be penalized regardless of if you finish 1st, 3rd, 8th or 12th.
Massa left with the fuel hose attached and nearly crashed into another car because he was released unsafely. Heikki was not released unsafely (he was well ahead of Rai) and only had the hose attached. It was pure luck that Massa didn't spray another car and cause a fire. He nearly crashed into one though. I thing the fines imposed are wrong. Heikki should not get a 25 second penalty. He barely should have gotten a drive through (which is less damaging for reasons I already laid out) and McLaren should be fined less than 10k to be fair. Already you see people in this thread inventing rules:

10K for Ferrari, 50K for McLaren.
When there is already one incident, the next one is absolutely normal to be much higher. The team that had the problem is irrelevant.

Which Force India car was leaving the pits, they clearly have remove the hose for Heikki.

[komninosm]

I think they (Force India) are waiting for one to arrive shortly. They are in ready positions.

[Ray]

The guys on SpeedTV said that ForceIndia should have done that exact same thing for Ferrari last year in Singapore and I agree. Who cares who's car it is, just yank the damn thing off and let the car go. It's much more dangerous to let a car sit there in pit lane blocking an avenue of escape by a driver in trouble and have it leaking fuel than to just rip the thing off and get him out of the way. They should be rewarded in some way for their quick thinking in my opinion.

[firefly]

Its funny how an act of goodwill and safety by a rival team helping another team has extended over 5 pages long. There is nothing to debate about, really.

[mep]

I am just curious if Brawn GP should be penalized for removing Mclaren detached fuel hose. Just imagine what will happen to last year Singapore GP result if Massa got the same kind of assistance

Why are people asking for punishments all the time??
There are already way too much punishments for peanuts.
Things like that destroy this unique show.

Not to mention why are people asking irrelevant self-serving what-ifs.

I guess you are referencing to my previous post by this?

What you not understand is that this was not a stupid irrelevant question.
It is THE most important question.
It is the question why we cant live together in peace and freedom.

Two people help each other in a hopless situation, now a third comes and whants to stop that. He wants to punish them for helping each other just because of his lower requirements.
That is not the way we should live togehter.
Have you ever considered that these team members have friends in other teams.
Why should they not help them?
Maybe because there is a rule who prohibits it?
You know there are stupid people who somethimes make stupid rules.
But should we stick to a stupid rule when we can help a other human in the same time?
I say no.

[andartop]

This is not a humanitarian issue, this is not a crusade, this is simply a sporting issue. If you guys still believe there is such a thing as "morals" in modern F1 I really have to admire your naivety. No matter what you choose to believe in though, the fact remains that a driver gained an advantage by receiving help by a "competing" team's mechanics.
And before you start ranting again about all things irrelevant may I remind you that the topic of this thread is whether the Brawn mechanics were allowed to remove a McLaren fuel rig or not, that's all, a fairly straightforward question imho.

[komninosm]

I guess you are referencing to my previous post by this?

What you not understand is that this was not a stupid irrelevant question.
It is THE most important question.
It is the question why we cant live together in peace and freedom.

Two people help each other in a hopless situation, now a third comes and whants to stop that. He wants to punish them for helping each other just because of his lower requirements.
That is not the way we should live togehter.
Have you ever considered that these team members have friends in other teams.
Why should they not help them?
Maybe because there is a rule who prohibits it?
You know there are stupid people who somethimes make stupid rules.
But should we stick to a stupid rule when we can help a other human in the same time?
I say no.

No, I was not referring to your post mate. I was referring to people with foolish daydreams of Massa winning the championship last year...

[komninosm]

This is not a humanitarian issue, this is not a crusade, this is simply a sporting issue. If you guys still believe there is such a thing as "morals" in modern F1 I really have to admire your naivety. No matter what you choose to believe in though, the fact remains that a driver gained an advantage by receiving help by a "competing" team's mechanics.
And before you start ranting again about all things irrelevant may I remind you that the topic of this thread is whether the Brawn mechanics were allowed to remove a McLaren fuel rig or not, that's all, a fairly straightforward question imho.

And it has already been answered. Just drop it and stop making yourself look silly.
By the way sporting and sportsmanship does involve helping your fellow athletes so you're wrong there too. F1 shouldn't be about deliberate crashes or FIA politics. It should be about racing in a sporting atmosphere.

[mep]

No, I was not referring to your post mate. I was referring to people with foolish daydreams of Massa winning the championship last year...

Ah this was not completely clear, but so you can ignore my last post.

And before you start ranting again about all things irrelevant may I remind you that the topic of this thread is whether the Brawn mechanics were allowed to remove a McLaren fuel rig or not, that's all, a fairly straightforward question imho.

Even asking such a question is a cruel itself, you should be ashamed.

[andartop]

I'm not the one who started this thread..but like it or not this question is its topic!
And again, you are confusing two different issues: whether they should and whether they were allowed to.
Is WRC where all external assistance is punishable a cruel sport?
This is all nonsense..

[ESPImperium]

I think we should forget about this topic now. If Charlie Whiting wanted it investigated at the time, he would have had it investigated by the stewards of the course. Also, the FIA/Max wanted it investigated, they would have acted by now i feel. So i dont really see any debate.

Ont thing i think should be discussed is why another team (team at the end of the pit lane, like Brawn this year) didnt do the same with Massa at Singapore last year, simply put because it was McLaren. And there was a WDC and Constructors Title on the line.

Personally, id like to move on from this topic.