The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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Pandamasque
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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Now we have a caption:
Image
mcdenife wrote:what you see hurts your eyes, look away.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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Caption? Like; "It isa trua Max, she'll whipa your arsa fo freea!"
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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Another caption: You see, I can make nice looking ladies do things, why not nice looking racer boys. You just have to make them an offer they can't reject.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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News from FIA
"The president of the FIA has consulted the FIA Senate and the FIA's lawyers about the decision of the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris of 5 January.

"It was unanimously agreed that an appeal would be prepared.

"In his election campaign last summer, FIA president Jean Todt and his team announced new measures for constructive change, including a disciplinary procedure, would be introduced. Work on this is well advanced.

"Once in place, this will address the issues in the Court's judgement. Nonetheless, an appeal is merited.

"While the appeal is under way, the World Motor Sport Council's decision of 21 September 2009 remains in full effect.

"However, in view of the uncertainty this may create for drivers who may be affected by this decision, the FIA president and FIA Senate have decided that, pending the outcome of the FIA's appeal, superlicences will continue to be issued to qualifying drivers in the usual way.

"The FIA president, the FIA Senate, the World Motor Sport Council, and the FIA's member clubs from all countries will take whatever measures are necessary to ensure the continuing integrity and safety of the sport."
James Allan Blog wrote:As part of his manifesto pledge, Todt is in the process of changing the FIA’s statutes and some of its procedures and planned to introduce a disciplinary panel, which would take away the role of the WMSC as a court.
It looks like the FIA is busy to adapt their statutes and procedures. This should take care of the new licensing requirements which can be used to keep convicted cheaters out of F1. An appeal of the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris of 5 January decision will probably be aimed at confirming that Briatore is still guilty and that (a revised?) punishment would be acceptable to EU law.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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WhiteBlue
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2010/01/ ... e-be-done/
Joe Saward wrote:.....
If the appeal council agrees with the decision of the tribunal and rules that the FIA not do its job properly this does not make Briatore innocent. It simply means that he was improperly punished for his role in the outrageous Singapore GP scandal of 2008. I have seen no suggestion anywhere that Briatore was innocent and I would not believe it even if I had. There is simply too much corroboration and evidence that came to light against him. He can muddy the waters by sueing people but the facts remain facts.
....
Briatore is now talking of sueing for damages and if he does that then he must be prepared for what may come out in a court of law. In order to establish whether a reputation has been damaged one has to establish the kind of reputation that the person concerned enjoyed before the event that allegedly caused the damage. This will mean that FIA lawyers will be able to dig up anything and everything that they can find about Briatore, both within the sport and outside it, dating back throughout his entire colourful life. They could even call in witnesses to testify about things that happened in the past.

As to justice for what happened in Singapore, I think that the FIA might be wise to follow Briatore’s route and ask the civil courts to decide on the matter. The Singapore authorities could, if they chose to, start proceedings against those involved in the scandal as it occurred on their territory, and under their jurisdiction. If Briatore is allowed to use civil law, so too is the federation.
A very good summation of the affair. A court in Singapore would probably be a nasty surprise for Flabby.

http://share.ehs.uen.org/node/5364
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

timbo
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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WhiteBlue wrote:A court in Singapore would probably be a nasty surprise for Flabby.
I believe a civil court would require mister X to show his face :roll:
that may change a few things.

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Fil
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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WhiteBlue wrote:
James Allan Blog wrote:As part of his manifesto pledge, Todt is in the process of changing the FIA’s statutes and some of its procedures and planned to introduce a disciplinary panel, which would take away the role of the WMSC as a court.
It looks like the FIA is busy to adapt their statutes and procedures. This should take care of the new licensing requirements which can be used to keep convicted cheaters out of F1. An appeal of the Tribunal de Grande Instance de Paris of 5 January decision will probably be aimed at confirming that Briatore is still guilty and that (a revised?) punishment would be acceptable to EU law.
how are you still managing to confuse yourself with what the French court case was about?
There was never any ruling about Briatore's guilt. The court refused to rule on that (one of Flav's failed challenges in his case). it was solely about what jurisdiction (or subsequently-ruled lack of) the FIA had.

The FIA now planning to create a new FIA disciplinary judiciary with jurisdiction over participants of FIA-sanctioned sports will:
- not in any way change the original French court's ruling;
- not have a bearing what-so-ever on the FIA's appeal;
- not affect Briatore's lifted ban by the French court;
- not have Briatore face a new FIA ban, as he is not (& will not be) an FIA license holder.

All we can hope for is that it will finally introduce a separation of powers between the FIA's governing body and its revised judiciary.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: Briatore and Symonds' bans from FIA undone by court

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Fil wrote:how are you still managing to confuse yourself with what the French court case was about?
There was never any ruling about Briatore's guilt. The court refused to rule on that (one of Flav's failed challenges in his case). it was solely about what jurisdiction (or subsequently-ruled lack of) the FIA had.
It is you who is confused. The main point of the Paris court finding was that the punishment against Briatore was violating the EU (and French) right of freedom of profession. It had nothing to do with the FIA jurisdiction.

Fil wrote:The FIA now planning to create a new FIA disciplinary judiciary with jurisdiction over participants of FIA-sanctioned sports will:
- not in any way change the original French court's ruling;
- not have a bearing what-so-ever on the FIA's appeal;
- not affect Briatore's lifted ban by the French court;
- not have Briatore face a new FIA ban, as he is not (& will not be) an FIA license holder.
And here you are getting it wrong again by disregarding the three different actions by the FIA. The federation has communicated that they will
  • appeal against the Paris decision at the French appeal court
  • change their internal procedures in order to shift disciplinary procedures from the WMSC to a dedicated body
  • take measure to enable the FIA to punish cheaters (read introduce new license requirements for team owners, driver managers and team directors)
The third point will take care to prevent possible activities by convicted cheaters which includes Briatore, Symmonds and others.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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Fil
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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No, no confusion.
We both agree that the main finding was that the FIA had no legal standing (within the EU, as you added) to punish Briatore as they did.
We both have said that in different ways.
This is jurisdiction/power over individuals; or the FIA's lack of it.
We both agree on this.

In your initial post that i quoted, you said that the appeal on Jan 5th will reaffirm Briatore's guilt.
All i am saying is that this was never investigated by the French court in the initial case, and won't be in the appeal.

Can the FIA place a new ban on Flav under their new judicial system? This remains to be seen. But again, this will not be investigated in the appeal.

Secondly, i agree and do not disregard the FIA's 3 noted actions.
But, the new judicial structure being planned will have no effect/bearing on the FIA's appeal against the court's initial decision.
Although, it should prevent such a situation occurring for the FIA in the future. This is a positive for the sport, legally & publicly.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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Some things to agree, indeed.
Fil wrote:the main finding was that the FIA had no legal standing (within the EU, as you added) to punish Briatore as they did.
The FIA had legal standing to punish Briatore. The particular penalty they selected wasn't acceptable in France and Europe. Because Briatore resigned from his office as team principal the FIA effectively ran out of legal options to punish him and over stretched the law to make it stick somehow. So this is simply an issue of leverage.

The appeal court will take a lot of time to sort this out and I bet my old tennis shoe against Euros that the new licensing structure will be in place before the appeal is heared. This means Flabby will have no chance to own or run a team again. He probably knows it very well why he announced his retirement from future team management this week.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Giblet
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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Flav is living in a dream world. I guess billions does give a sense of entitlement.

He thinks the sentence being changed restores his dignity?

A cheater in sports has no dignity or honor. He has tarnished his own reputation, and loud yelling doesn't work in this case.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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WhiteBlue
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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Giblet wrote:Flav is living in a dream world. I guess billions does give a sense of entitlement.

He thinks the sentence being changed restores his dignity?

A cheater in sports has no dignity or honor. He has tarnished his own reputation, and loud yelling doesn't work in this case.
+1
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

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safeaschuck
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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This picture should be laid out like one of those motivational posters, most of us will have seen one at some point, either on the wall in an office (cringe) or going round on joke emails, sort of like below but with a black background and white lettering.
Maybe Flavio has somethig similar in his office?



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>DIGNITY<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Image


Maintaining your dignity is more important than the safety of your employees
and the respect of your peers. Never let anyone get the better of you.





hehe :lol:

allan
allan
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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Kinda related:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80969

Now this piquet guy is full of crap

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WhiteBlue
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Re: The race-fix case of Briatore and Symonds versus the FIA

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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/81360?
Autosport wrote:With former Renault boss Flavio Briatore and engineering director Pat Symonds having overturned bans from the sport in the French courts, a decision that remains subject to an FIA appeal, Todt has said action will be taken as a response to the matter.

Speaking to Gazzetta dello Sport about the subject, Todt said: "The Court of Grande Instance ruled we were wrong over the form, not the substance.

"There was an indisputable fact and there was proof - so much so that there was just a single vote against at the World Council. I will propose that the team managers, too, will have a licence."
Of course the minority vote was Briatore's old buddy Bernie as he confirmed himself.

That course of action was expected and will help to give the FiA the necessary means to discipline cheating F1 executives.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)