Christian Horner is complaining about engine disadvantages

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Every time I hear this guy bleat, he is always putting his opponents down or spinning some wonderful tale. In the aftermath of Turkey he has now raised the "engine equalisation" issue yet again!

Its ridiculous that Mercedes and Ferrari should have to put up with this guys constant harangueing of the FIA.
How about Chassis and aero equalisation Mr Horner?

I just wanted to get other peoples thoughts on this matter.

Full story courtesy of Autosport.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84119

[WhiteBlue]

It is like the third car for Ferrari. The FiA have decided long ago that equalization will only happen if the stronger engines are detuned. Mercedes obviously will never agree to that, and why should they?

Horner is testing the patience of the fans with his whinging. There is no God given right for equal power in the engine freeze.

[BreezyRacer]

Mr Horner would dearly love to talk about anything other than team preferences and Vettel. Easiest way to do that? Dredge up something else.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Mr Horner would dearly love to talk about anything other than team preferences and Vettel. Easiest way to do that? Dredge up something else.

Agreed which makes it doubly annoying!

It is like the third car for Ferrari. The FiA have decided long ago that equalization will only happen if the stronger engines are detuned. Mercedes obviously will never agree to that, and why should they?

Horner is testing the patience of the fans with his whinging. There is no God given right for equal power in the engine freeze.

Yes, he stupidly suggests that it sounds ridiculous that he is moaning!

Memo to Horner:YOU SOUND RIDICULOUS MATE> KEEP A LID ON IT.

[Belatti]

He does not need therapy and you need to change the title of this topic given that it doesn not reflect what we might discuss here. You could have just posted in an engine equalization or Red Bull thread.

He is a clever young leader and all he says has been said before by everyone everywhere (the freeze rule is stupid as it freezes disadvantages....) and that if if the FIA wont let Renault get to the level of Mercedes and Ferrari then he might look for another engine. Full stop. Nothing that worths therapy.

Of course Mercedes and Ferrari wont supply a team that with a better chasis and equal HP will woop their *sses with ease.

Another con-redbull fanboy useless thread

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Disagree Belatti,

Where in the Red Bull or Engine Equalisation thread could we discuss the stupendously big discreprency between what Horner says, and what Horner does?
I feel this thread alleaviates the need to pollute the 2 threads you mentioned with subject matter undeserving or totally out of context with what I have in mind.

Secondly I hate no-one, so the anti fanboy remark is rather inflammtory especially for a moderator as yourself. Surely MODERATION is needed and not passing judgement as to whom or where my allegiance lies?

I trust this to clear the matter amicably?

[marcush.]

with Renault and Redbull surely not the slowest cars around BUT quickest and joint 3rd force in the performance battle it seems a bit far fetched to think overall the Renault engine is a significant drawback compared to the Mercedes powerplant that all
are considering best in class.

[Belatti]

I trust this to clear the matter amicably?

Sure. Just quit the "need therapy" thing and replace it for "he contradicts himself or he things his engine is not the best" or anything that doesnt try to shock people instead.

For more amicable also you can agree that the freeze rule sucks bigtime.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

No worries, how do I do this?

And yes the Freeze rule sucks big time. Mercedes should have a 100hp advantage by now!

[WhiteBlue]

No worries, how do I do this?

Go to your first post that opened the thread. There you can edit the subject line to something like: "Horner still banging on about engine HP differences" or whatever you want to name it.

[donskar]

He does not need therapy and you need to change the title of this topic given that it doesn not reflect what we might discuss here. You could have just posted in an engine equalization or Red Bull thread.

He is a clever young leader and all he says has been said before by everyone everywhere (the freeze rule is stupid as it freezes disadvantages....) and that if if the FIA wont let Renault get to the level of Mercedes and Ferrari then he might look for another engine. Full stop. Nothing that worths therapy.

Of course Mercedes and Ferrari wont supply a team that with a better chasis and equal HP will woop their *sses with ease.

Another con-redbull fanboy useless thread

I'm with Belatti on this one 100%. F1 and the concept of freezing anything (especially engines) are contradictory.

[ISLAMATRON]

For more amicable also you can agree that the freeze rule sucks bigtime.

why that? First and foremost it was the teams that agreed uponthe engine freeze... it was not FIA imposed as many would lead usto believe.

Secondly the point of the engine freeze was never engine equality... the engine freeze was put in place as a cost saving measure and for that reason alone.

Yes the freeze, freezes in disadvantages but there have allways been disadvantages on the engine side. So which is better? Renault spending 100 Million a year and being down 30hp or them spending 10 Million a year and still being down 30 hp?

If there was no freeze Merc & Ferrari would be gaining hp while Renault is trying to make up the gap... it is a never ending cycle... a very expensive one.

Horner should be happy the engine freeze is in place or else Renault(engine maker, remember they dont own the team any more) might not be in F1 today, and since they decided to pull/sell out very late in the off season the RB6 would have been a frankenstien with the cosworth in the back... then his bitch ass would really be crying foul.

[WhiteBlue]

F1 and the concept of freezing anything (especially engines) are contradictory.

It is simple to say what you don't want. It would be much harder to come up with an alternative solution to the underlaying problem. Before the freeze Ferrari, Merc, BMW, Renault, Honda and Toyota collectively spend one billion dollar per year on engine development. Naturally they tried to re charge some of their mind boggling cost to their engine customers which made engines prohibitively expensive beyond what private teams were able to afford.

Prior to the freeze the FiA had made numerous attempts to agree affordable engine prices for customer engines with the manufacturers. Their efforts were constantly being frustrated. The freeze was a last ditch measure to get a handle on the engine race for higher and higher revs at astronomical costs. Had the manufacturers had some agreement on resource restriction and customer pricing in 2005 or 2006 the engine freeze had never happened.

In a balanced race series the attempt to outspend all competitors until you have no competitors any more must be prohibited. With the resource restriction in place and with Cosworth supplying competitive engines they will probably lift the engine freeze with the new formula in 2013. Hopefully the competitive advantages then will be found by fuel efficiency developments. Higher reclaimed electrical power would be the perfect competitive advantage for the next decade.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I agree(for a change) with Islamatron.

Renault has had 2 engine mods since the inception of the engine freeze.
This was out of grace from everyone before .....Toyota Mercedes BMW Ferrari et al and the second time through grace again from Mercedes and Ferrari(and surely Cosworth).

What if Mercedes went to ask to make a change for "fuel economy" reasons?
Would Renault demonstrate the same grace? I very much doubt that as Red Bull would be pulling their hair out!

And where does Horner get this figure of 30hp? Norbert Haug himself mentions this at the start of the year "There is a paper thin advantage, but 30 or 40 HP? Mr Horner is dreaming if he thinks we have this power".

Horner can see whats coming, a Mercedes powered Mclaren is closing in on the Red Bull and he does not like it one bit.
I want to see Webber take a WDC, but with someone like Horner constantly banging on about his rubbish engine, it makes me want one of the Maccas to take it.

Why does he not mention Renaults fuel effeciency advantage?
How convenient he forgot that....

[Pandamasque]

I can tell you exactly why it happens. Last year Alonso kept winging about the engine. Eventually FIA responded by allowing Renault to improve. Alonso moved to Ferrari. Renault needs someone to do that!