Anyone Else Sick Of The Fuel Saving Section In Races???

[ringo]

"nursing" on track.....

might as well name the piglets; tyre1, tyre2, tyre3, tyre4, engine, gearbox, and of course little fuel.


racing full bore ........


3 drivers in hot pursuit

[segedunum]

All we want is: Low fuel quali and refueling.
We have not seen a final lap battle in ages.

Refueling can give us that.

We have never seen one for ages, and this is the first year of no refuelling? We never had that with refuelling - except in 2005 and that was mainly down to the tyres that had to last a whole race distance. Spa 2008 was a one off because of weather conditions.

Refuelling was started in 1994 and it made the sport a borefest. The fastest team and driver got on pole position and all the team did was to keep as little fuel in the car as possible so he maintained track position by reacting to what everyone else did. That was it. It's been tinkered with over the years with fuel used in qualifying being taken into the race, but that just devalued qualifying so we then helpfully got published fuel weights...........which basically told us exactly what was going to happen in the race.

Refuelling was ---. It didn't make anything any better.

[WhiteBlue]

Refuelling was sh!t. It didn't make anything any better.

Amen

[richard_leeds]

Back in the 2000s, we had guys on the same tyres, batling the clock,sector after sector, going full bore. Then eventually they meet and the fight is on, all cars on the same type of tyre, but one maybe with a little more life.

I recall that era as a list of races decided by team orders, and leaders opening a gap that gave them a free pit stop.

Same tyres, what about Michelin v Bridgestone?

[Giblet]

I'm sitting on the fence. I don't care for refueling, but I also don't care for gas savings.

If the cars were mandated to be full of enough fuel to run every lap balls out, there would be heavier cars at the beginning, and more drivers making small errors, increasing the spectacle, showcasing more driver skill, and no periods where a quick driver has to drive slower than they want.

[Jonsson]

F1 is all about the drivers and constructors. The pit time element always made me angry when it determined the race. Now, the crews have only 4 seconds to change all four tyres. I'm happy with that, instead of waiting 20 seconds to refuel the pole sitter who had a light car to start with. These new rules make Q3 almost as fun to watch as the race.

While there are a good 20 laps to every race where drivers will conserve fuel, I think that encourages overtaking by other drivers going full bore.

[gridwalker]

Having watched F1 since 1987, I have to say that the refeulling years provided the dullest races in terms of wheel to wheel action; I have loved the racing that the current regulations have provided and if this means that some drivers need to nurse their fuel level then so be it.

The turbo years, hailed by many as a golden age, featured a field full of cars that were marginal on fuel and you didn't hear the fans complaining ... why? Because we never heard about it! Drivers were constantly adjusting their boost levels to manage their pace and fuel consumption whilst defending against competitors, which didn't detract from the action at all!

We now hear so much from the pit wall that we can all make our own sweeping judgements about what is happening on track. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing and I see no reason why hearing about drivers conserving a little fuel should detract from the fact that there has been more overtaking this season than during the majority of races where drivers could refuel.

If fuel conservation means that we can have such a great pace differential during different phases of the race, then I say give them less fuel, not more!

[mep]

This year I always feel asleep during qualy.

[richard_leeds]

mep- Do you always have a heavy Saturday lunch with a glass of wine?

To be serious, I did enjoy the strategic element of refuelling. The uncertainty over who was heavy or light in Q3. Getting online on Sat evening to see the wieghts. Then the anticipation of seeing strategies played out on track. Would the light car get enough of a lead to pit ahead of the slow car?

There was something very satisfying to see a driver go to the limit on 4 or 5 laps during the pit stops to try to gain a place. Watching the purples flash up on the timing screen, watching them stalk their prey and then pounce. I loved it. I miss it.

Refuelling would have given Alonso the opportunity to have 3 laps to build a lead on Massa if they had pitted. So instead of seeing Alonso going purple for 5 mins to pass on Massa in a pit stop, we had to see Massa be intsructed to let him pass

[WhiteBlue]

If the cars were mandated to be full of enough fuel to run every lap balls out, there would be heavier cars at the beginning, and more drivers making small errors, increasing the spectacle, showcasing more driver skill, and no periods where a quick driver has to drive slower than they want.

If some cars are faster with less fuel it would be completely counter productive to force them to take as much gas as the fuel inefficient teams. What kind of ethos are we talking about here? Instead we need to allow more efficiency developments of the power train as discussed for the future. If the most fuel efficient teams can finish the race with 10 or 20 kg less fuel it would be moronic in my view to force them to carry fuel ballast.

[xpensive]

If the cars were mandated to be full of enough fuel to run every lap balls out, there would be heavier cars at the beginning, and more drivers making small errors, increasing the spectacle, showcasing more driver skill, and no periods where a quick driver has to drive slower than they want.

If some cars are faster with less fuel it would be completely counter productive to force them to take as much gas as the fuel inefficient teams. What kind of ethos are we talking about here? Instead we need to allow more efficiency developments of the power train as discussed for the future. If the most fuel efficient teams can finish the race with 10 or 20 kg less fuel it would be moronic in my view to force them to carry fuel ballast.

Unless you have noticed, you are rather lonely with the view that saving fuel is more important than decent racing.

[richard_leeds]

Unless you have noticed, you are rather lonely with the view that saving fuel is more important than decent racing.

Not quite.

More effective and efficient technology leads to lighter cars and more innovation. It is about going faster for less input. That is at the heart of F1.

Otherwise we would stick with push rods and carburettors, after all the "racing" was more exciting in Fangio's day wasn't it?

[ESPImperium]

If the cars were mandated to be full of enough fuel to run every lap balls out, there would be heavier cars at the beginning, and more drivers making small errors, increasing the spectacle, showcasing more driver skill, and no periods where a quick driver has to drive slower than they want.

If some cars are faster with less fuel it would be completely counter productive to force them to take as much gas as the fuel inefficient teams. What kind of ethos are we talking about here? Instead we need to allow more efficiency developments of the power train as discussed for the future. If the most fuel efficient teams can finish the race with 10 or 20 kg less fuel it would be moronic in my view to force them to carry fuel ballast.

As ive said before, and i think WhiteBlue has the angle im coming from. Mandate a sdandardised fuel tank and make sure that the cars are fulled to the brimmer with fuel, and make the more fuel innefficient engines suffer in the race untill they come up to spec. Say make them all start with 150Kg of fuel, engines like the Renault RS27-2010 altho down on power, will have the edge in this area. The Ferarri and Cosworth will drink their fuel alot more.

One idea that i did find good was give the drivers a secondry tank, like they have oil, make this tank say 10kg full and as soon as this is activated their is a couple of blue lights come on outside the car, one at the rear under the rear light and one say at each side of the T-Camera for all to see.

Once all the engines are just about doing as they should to last a race, cut the fuel ammount to 130KG and the reserve to 8KG would be my idea as well. Also allow KERS units as well, say 10 laps a race, and make KERS unlimited in power for use in those laps as well. And if you want, also allow the F-Duct but in a safer mechanichal form, with same rules as KERS, unlimited usage for 10 full laps a race only. But thats me getting sidetracked again.

Lets see how the cars get on with that, 2 forms of push to pass, and the green credentials of the sport pushed with mandated fuel levels that get reduced over time to a level that could be transfered to road car technology.

[ringo]

Why is everyone separating low fuel qualy from race refueling?
We can have both you know?

And remember back in the day the cars weren't as close as we have them now. So refueling would be more exciting.

Let's be honest, saving fuel etc. takes away from the idea that F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing. The cars are made to sprint. Saving fuel doesn't necessarily improve racing. A following car overtaking a car saving fuel hasn't happened this year, and if it did, it would not be an exciting duel.
I am not easily impressed with simple textbook overtakes, due to massive car advantage. I rather 2 drivers banging out laps trying to one up the other one by a tenth to beat him in the pitstops, than watch one saving fuel in the end, then being lousily overtaken by the other.
Remember suzuka 2009, battle between truli and Hamilton? That was a duel.

What memorable battles have we had so far that were only possible with these regulations?

[WhiteBlue]

Why is everyone separating low fuel qualy from race refueling?
We can have both you know?

You cannot have realistically both because the idiots around Ecclestone will not be able to resist the chance to improve the strategy options you get by race fuel quali. We had to endure that sh!t for years. So the moment refueling is back the sh!t will be back as well.

Why can't people see we have an exciting thing going on right now. Efficiency will become a legal technology race again. We will have competitive engine and power train engineering again which we did not have for ages. It should all be very exciting. Even the aero junkies can have their game as long as they keep it for efficiency only and not just unnecessary downforce.