Clean sheet design for 2011 regs

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Post Thu Sep 09, 2010 12:30 am

mx_tifosi wrote:Newey's magic can't last forever, and next season will be a continuation of this years regs for the most part. And we're seeing the RB6 lose ground to the McLarens and Ferrari's just like it happened to the BGP001 last year.


It's not magic; it's genius. (I'm not a Newey fan: that @$#!@^! has made for many an unhappy day for the Tifosi.)

I do wonder about "continuation of this years regs." It seems some engineers (Williams?) have used the term "clean sheet." Dropping DDD and F-duct and other changes CAN mean a "new" design -- and I think that Newey will do more than just remove aero items from the existing design. He is more likely to come up with new ideas. We can always count on Newey to come up with something outside the box.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:23 am

Yes, but Newey's never known to have shone in continuous regulation conditions. His bright spot has been his creativity in handling NEW regulations.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:35 am

Donskar, I concur that adding/removing major parts of the design just may designate it as a "new design". But the f-duct doesn't have much to do with the chassis, drive/powertrain, or suspension.

And by magic I clearly meant genius, as his amazing work is by no means coincidental or unexplained. And even if he has given Ferrari a tough time I certainly believe that he's contributed a considerable amount to the sport as a whole with his creativity and success, and we're all the better for it.


Raymondu, I think Newey did incredibly well from 2009 to 2010 wouldn't you agree? This was a continuation of last year, except for the front tyres, wheel covers, and KERS for a few teams. Luckily RBR never had KERS.
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mx_tifoso
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: North America

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 3:46 pm

With the new teams being so far off the pace, which route would they go to? Clean sheet, or evolution? The Lotus looks fundamentally too boxy to be of much potential for upgrading in the first place.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Sat Sep 18, 2010 7:47 pm

Lotus will probably start with a blank slate, they had so little time to build a car it was a case of getting something together - that something, of course, managing to get them a respectable tenth slot in the WDC (first time that's been said, probably). What they will be able to do with that blank slate next year will be interesting to say the least.
Dukeage
 
Joined: 24 Jul 2007

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:04 pm

I have just been thinking about 2011.

I have searched but not found anything on the forum. But do we know who owns the KERS used on the Mclaren in 2009? Is it Mclarens or is it Mercedes?

I know it was offered to FI in 2009 as part of the techinical partnership.

Also I am guessing Mercedes still have access to the flywheel system honda made.
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Sawtooth-spike
 
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Location: Cambridge

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:30 pm

The next rule that i personally think should be introduced in F1, to reduce costs, is a limit on the ammount of chassis you can produce in 2 seasons. Id say that a limit of 9 would be attainable on average

Teams need to evolve designs and put costs down over 2 years that way.

The only thing that would be needed is stable and clean rules for a set period of time, if theres a loophome, dont close it.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:26 pm

mx_tifosi wrote:Newey's magic can't last forever, and next season will be a continuation of this years regs for the most part. And we're seeing the RB6 lose ground to the McLarens and Ferrari's just like it happened to the BGP001 last year.


You're forgetting that RB5 was the best car last year. FIA scandal of allowing BGP to race despite telling all other teams but to them and Toyota during winter that DDD is illegal doesn't mean that BGP was the best car in 2009.

Worst team on the grid with financial problems and last minute engine deal to be dominant in next season - that never happened in history, because no one ever did what FIA did in 2009.

RB5 was best of the last non-DDD cars, and now RB6 is best of all DDD cars (once rules were same for all). So, Newey is extremely adoptable, season-to-season.
manchild
 
Joined: 3 Jun 2005

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:44 pm

if I remember correctly brawn pointed out before 2009 commenced that the rules permitted the DD ; he was ignored so he incorporated in his cars ...he was not alone of course

if he hadn't then the BGP would have started as the 3rd/4th best car , as it was after mid season
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be
lebesset
 
Joined: 6 Aug 2008

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 7:20 pm

Sawtooth-spike wrote:I have just been thinking about 2011.

I have searched but not found anything on the forum. But do we know who owns the KERS used on the Mclaren in 2009? Is it Mclarens or is it Mercedes?

I know it was offered to FI in 2009 as part of the techinical partnership.

Also I am guessing Mercedes still have access to the flywheel system honda made.


As far as I remember, MP4-24's KERS was designed by Mercedes.
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Morteza
 
Joined: 10 Feb 2010
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:23 pm

Mercedes property.
It is mega expensive and FI cannot afford it ?
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

Post Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:35 pm

The McLaren system was designed by Zytek. May have been funded by Mercedes of course. No idea as to "ownership" of the F1 system but Zytek have produced winning systems for others so I doubt it would be difficult to get them to do so for an F1 team again.
Just_a_fan
 
Joined: 31 Jan 2010

Post Fri Oct 15, 2010 5:57 pm

mx_tifosi wrote:Newey's magic can't last forever, and next season will be a continuation of this years regs for the most part. And we're seeing the RB6 lose ground to the McLarens and Ferrari's just like it happened to the BGP001 last year.


Agreed. Any engineer/designer will be restricted by the amount of cash made available by team management.

But in terms of Newey's own skill, there will be a day when he is superceeded by a younger version of himself. Just plain natural.
andrew
 
Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Post Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:11 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:The McLaren system was designed by Zytek. May have been funded by Mercedes of course. No idea as to "ownership" of the F1 system but Zytek have produced winning systems for others so I doubt it would be difficult to get them to do so for an F1 team again.

Mercedes have aligned a technical partnership with zytek some time ago (are they even stakeholders? the smart e-drive contains Zytek technology ..my neighbor did drive one some time ago equipped with funny cabling and packed with instrumentation..my home is an area where all the boffins live who develop german
wertarbeit... :roll: ).
marcush.
 
Joined: 9 Mar 2004

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