Who should win the title this year? why or why not?

[WhiteBlue]

http://en.espnf1.com/f1/motorsport/stor ... MP=OTC-RSS

Sebastian seems to have a slight edge as far as speed is concerned. We will see whether Mark's [points] advantage is enough to win the title. There will be no team order from our side. The driver who makes the least mistakes and is faster should, or will, win.

=D> =D>

[raymondu999]

Yeah... that was the link that I just posted in the post above yours lol

[lebesset]

sounds like mateschitz would prefer vettel to be champion

what a surprise

[gibells]

We're only equal when we're not equal!

[WhiteBlue]

sounds like mateschitz would prefer vettel to be champion

To me it sounds like Mateschitz knows who of his drivers is the faster one. I cannot see a preference for WDC by Mateschitz in the comment. You are welcome to make a point how you came to that perception. All Red Bull bosses have made it abundantly clear that they will support both drivers equally to the end of the campaign. That appears to be a sound policy considering both drivers are 1-2 in the odds to win the championship. They have very similar chances to win and take the other high points away from non Red Bull drivers. It could not be better for Red Bull.

[mkw0101]

Button would be a big surpise to win dwc for the second time but it's a long shot.

[WhiteBlue]

OK, lets have some facts and figures.



Vettel is the faster driver of the two Red Bull pilots in total.

Webber can use his superior experience particularly in wet qualifying sessions or when tyre calls are marginal but those are not prevalent in F1.

If you look at dry qualifying and sessions that have been contested without any defects in the cars the raw speed of Vettel becomes much clearer. He qualifies on average 0.3 s faster than Webber and out qualifies him 9:2 in a typical dry session with equal cars.

[andrew]

Ah but it is the points that count, not who was fastest when. I want Vettel to win the championship but it is a fact that Webber has scored more points.

When all is said and done after Abu Dahbi, it is only the number of points scored that matters.

[forty-two]

Ah but it is the points that count, not who was fastest when. I want Vettel to win the championship but it is a fact that Webber has scored more points.

When all is said and done after Abu Dahbi, it is only the number of points scored that matters.

There must be something wrong with either you or I Andrew, you keep saying things which I agree with!

Perhaps I need to go see my Doctor?

[WhiteBlue]

Sure Webber had more luck, less defects and has more points at the moment. But it is after the last race when it counts for the championship. Lets wait and see who is in front then.

Being the faster driver is an important asset.

[andrew]

Sure Webber had more luck, less defects and has more points at the moment. But it is after the last race when it counts for the championship. Lets wait and see who is in front then.

Being the faster driver is an important asset.

Being fast is important but that alone is not enough to win a championship. All champions have been lucky at some point.

To use the old saying, points win prizes and Webber has the most.

Ah but it is the points that count, not who was fastest when. I want Vettel to win the championship but it is a fact that Webber has scored more points.

When all is said and done after Abu Dahbi, it is only the number of points scored that matters.

There must be something wrong with either you or I Andrew, you keep saying things which I agree with!

Perhaps I need to go see my Doctor?

Each time I read this I fall off my chair in amazment and disbelief. Trouble is I've read it 5 times and still don't believe it!

[imightbewrong]

OK, lets have some facts and figures.

Just some questions for you regarding those facts.

Monza
I have no recollection of any engine problem in Q, am I missing something? He did have some (probably) self inflected brake problems during the race though.

“At first we thought one of his visor tear-offs might have flown into the airbox, but it now looks as though his brakes were momentarily binding, probably as a result of hitting a kerb [too hard],” the Englishman explained.

source

Monaco
The chassis issue probably hampered him, but apparently the issue wasn't so bad during qualifying, but got worse during the race:

"We found the chassis had a minor defect," he told the news agency. "It looks as if it is an issue that deteriorated during the race in Monaco."

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_ ... t_id=40865
But I agree that the q-result during monaco should not be accounted for.

I have problem seeing the point of removing the wet races though, being fast in the wet is also being fast, its a part of being a racing driver. A more correct way of removing non-standard results would be to remove the top1 or two results for each driver to remove statistical discrepancies.

Disclaimer: My gut feeling is that Vettel is indeed a bit faster on most tracks, but I think that your bias is shining through in your analysis.

Edit: Your data, but "corrected" by me. Still shows that Vettel has the edge, but only slight, about 0.1s IMO.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.grandprix.com/race/r834satquotes.html

Sebastian Vettel (6th, 1:22.675): "I'm a bit disappointed. We were very quick yesterday and had decent pace this morning too. I don't know where the speed went this afternoon. I was around 3-4kph quicker yesterday than I was this afternoon with less fuel. There are a lot of straights in Monza, so it was quite costly.

In the German interview on Sky he mentioned the engine may be the problem which matches with the lack of speed on the straights. But it could have equally been another brake problem. In any case there is reason to belive that his car was not ok being much slower on the straights.

Regarding changing wet/dry conditions in qualifying as we had this year. It is not so much about the ability of the driver to run quick in certain conditions but about picking the right point in time for the right tyre. Good race engineers and luck have as much to do with it as the drivers and the time difference in Malaysia shows that it wasn't the true speed difference.

The point is even with various disadvantages Vettel is faster in total and significantly faster in typical dry conditions and an ok car. We do not need to find an agreement on various dodgy car issues if it makes a difference of 0.05 s for Vettel's advantage. Even with your modified table there is no denying that Vettel has been the faster man in qualifying. Particularly this year with true low fuel qualifying back there would be few people to argue Webber was faster because of an occasional fastest race lap.

[imightbewrong]

http://www.grandprix.com/race/r834satquotes.html

Sebastian Vettel (6th, 1:22.675): "I'm a bit disappointed. We were very quick yesterday and had decent pace this morning too. I don't know where the speed went this afternoon. I was around 3-4kph quicker yesterday than I was this afternoon with less fuel. There are a lot of straights in Monza, so it was quite costly.

In the German interview on Sky he mentioned the engine may be the problem which matches with the lack of speed on the straights. But it could have equally been another brake problem. In any case there is reason to belive that his car was not ok being much slower on the straights.

Regarding changing wet/dry conditions in qualifying as we had this year. It is not so much about the ability of the driver to run quick in certain conditions but about picking the right point in time for the right tyre. Good race engineers and luck have as much to do with it as the drivers and the time difference in Malaysia shows that it wasn't the true speed difference.

The point is even with various disadvantages Vettel is faster in total and significantly faster in typical dry conditions and an ok car.

Okay, fair enough. That is your view. My view is still that I think Vettel is slightly faster, but not by that much, probably about a tenth. But obviously we will disagree on the size of the gap.

I think Vettel could lead this easily, but he has made a few costly mistakes, as have most drivers. Webber hasn't had as many brainfades, but has had some disappointing qualifyings and starts that has screwed him over.

[sknguy]

I have no specific preferences of the contenders. But they're all deserving in some way. I think Webber has had to race through the stigma of being a number two driver. Alonso and Ferrari have worked hard at catching the leaders. Hamilton has impressed me by showing patience and that the car hasn't necessarily been contending. And through the adversity he's faced I'm thinking Vettel is very much still a betting odds-on-favorite of many.

Finishing is going to be extremely important for them. And I don't mean settling for positions. Because it's not like this is a two driver championship.