The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

[Giblet]

Interesting thing this year is that nobody can figure out what exactly is going on with the car. It can run so low at the front it seems almost unreal.

Other teams are scratching their heads and Newey seems a bargain at a reported 10 million per annum.

[raymondu999]

Well if we look back on the cars that Newey has done in the past... in terms of Williams, McLaren etc... there's not much hope for people to catch up that quickly is there? In my view I only truly hold 1 designer as anywhere near Adrian Newey's league... Rory Byrne. And I don't think he'll come back out of retirement.

The only thing I don't get is why Newey can't make a more slippery car right now... I don't remember the old dominant Williamses and McLarens to have a straight-line deficit... I wonder if next year Newey will be able to improve the RB6 into a more slippery RB7. The car's got the grip, but let's be honest, in a straightline, the car hasn't got the grunt. It's not slippery enough.

[ahmedvortex]

in my opinion , if redbull extends the high G controlled flex to the hole car , yes they will have a start advantage .
for the weight distribution , each team can adjust his car with lest , but the main raw distribution for all the cars is the same .

[raymondu999]

lest? You mean ballast? There's a MANDATORY weight distribution of 54:46 (I can't remember where I got that figure, but I did) which everyone goes with

I don't see why they would make the whole car flex. It would distort things too much.

[ahmedvortex]

yes lest is the ballast , the mandatory weight distribution concern only the net one without ballast .
for the flexing if they can use it both ways , they will find speed advantage on the straight by decreasing down forces , but i doubt they master this technique anyways .

[Confused_Andy]

RBR has managed to produce championship winning cars for 2 consecutive years despite not being the biggest or richest team on the grid.

They're really not poor either!

RBR have obviouslly found something this year which is giving them such an advantage, its the best car of 2010 but with **** driving it, give it to a WDC driver they would have won it long ago. I think this advantage will continue next year but for how long?

[vall]

Has this mandatory weight distribution been confirmed?? Havent heard much about it.
If its true its a stupid rule.

yes, it is. The idea behind it is that with the little knowledge about the characteristics of the new Pirreli tires, some team may simply luck into the right weight distribution and have huge advantage next year. To prevent that, the team opted for the mandatory weight distribution. As I understand it, it should be valid only for next year. Then everyone can go whatever they want because they will no how the tires behave.

[BreezyRacer]

IMO, RB has a BIG advantage in that it's development dept is more closely correlated to actual conditions than anyone else. When was the last time RB brought an update that didn't work or wasn't reliable?

McLaren hasn't been nearly so successful, though they sprouted some innovation with the F duct.
Renault has done a surprisingly good job on this front this year and have gone in their own distinct direction on aero but RB have been at this game much longer.
Williams has improved in this dept too, but no innovation there.
Ferrari done well as copiers, getting it right usually on the first or second attempt but not much aero innovation there.

The RB wind tunnel and CFD is well set up to mimic real world conditions. Any updates seem to match up with engineering estimates to the tenth of a second .. all the time. This simply means that even if RB miss the initial target they are on pace very quickly in the season. These last two years they missed the double diffusers and the F duct. (IMO neither should have been legalized but that's just my opinion) Still they became dominant thru the season. Thank Adrian Newey for this RB development environment, clearly.

So it matters little what the rules are, RB will be there, mostly ahead of the pack every time.

The rest of the grid should be happy RB doesn't have it's own motor program.

[hollus]

The mandatory weight distribution is for a static car.
The car weighs 640 Kg. Downforce is easily 2 tonnes.

[timbo]

The mandatory weight distribution is for a static car.
The car weighs 640 Kg. Downforce is easily 2 tonnes.

It is "kinda" true.
Look at the car doing 4g turn — what tyres are gonna fight is lateral force of 640x4=2560 kg. It would mean something whether there's 1250 kg or say 1177 kg on the front axle especially if the tyre is around limit?

[donskar]

Well if we look back on the cars that Newey has done in the past... in terms of Williams, McLaren etc... there's not much hope for people to catch up that quickly is there? In my view I only truly hold 1 designer as anywhere near Adrian Newey's league... Rory Byrne. And I don't think he'll come back out of retirement.

I think John Barnard WAS also very good. Don't know if he'd want to go back to F1 after bike, motorcycle and furniture design.

The only thing I don't get is why Newey can't make a more slippery car right now... I don't remember the old dominant Williamses and McLarens to have a straight-line deficit... I wonder if next year Newey will be able to improve the RB6 into a more slippery RB7. The car's got the grip, but let's be honest, in a straightline, the car hasn't got the grunt. It's not slippery enough.

Maybe, just maybe the Renault IS a bit down on power?

[raymondu999]

Let's say the Renault is down on power. Ok. But Renault F1 has proved that with a good, slippery chassis, it's possible to top the speedtraps.

[segedunum]

The only thing I dot't get is why Newey can't make a more slippery car right now... I don't remember the old dominant Williamses and McLarens to have a straight-line deficit...

Newey doesn't see that as his job. He increases the downforce of the car to make it go faster around corners and if anybody complains about drag he points at the engine guys and say "What are they doing?". That's how the Renault engine was the most powerful thing out there in the 90s and why the Mercedes became equally as good. It's also why he's moaning about the Renault now.

Let's say the Renault is down on power. Ok. But Renault F1 has proved that with a good, slippery chassis, it's possible to top the speedtraps.

But they don't have the downforce and they're not winning.

[segedunum]

I think it's inevitable that Red Bull will carry the advantage into next year. Newey already has a single diffuser branch of development with the 2009 car and most of the downforce that the current RB6 produces is based forward of the diffuser and making it more efficient, not the diffuser itself. He's proved everyone wrong yet again this year.

I also find the 2013 engine discussions funny as well. It seems that keeping the homologated V8s is an option because everyone is terrified that VW will come in, trump the regulations like they've done in other formulas and, heaven forbid, team up with Red Bull.

[Steven]

RBR are very likely to be a championship contender again next year. I'm not sure if they'll have an advantage, but I find it very unlikely that they would drop below the top three teams.

During last winter, many expected Red Bull to drop its pull rod rear suspension because it's not the best fit for a double deck diffuser. Next year though, with the DDD banned, I foresee several other teams copying the rear pull rod suspension - and yes you can write that down and confront me afterwards . It's difficult to see what performance influence that might have, as RBR have the experience, but others may jump the pecking order if there is a reasonable performance advantage.