The Red Bull Advantage in 2011

[kalinka]

I can agree on most of your thougths. I didn't say I'm absolutely right, it's just one possibility that I'm pointed out. Often the change in ownership implies change in people too. There are new leaders, you have new people that new leaders like more than others....etc. I'm just saying it's not that simlpe as it looks. Maybe in few cases it can be done without any major changes, that's true, but it's always a risky business.

On tyre thing : It's again just my instict that tells me that they can extract useful info. I'm servicing computers in my own business for 15 years. You can sure agree with me that computers 15 years back were quite different than now. Even so, you have same similar or characteristic errors in nowdays computers that you can diagnose using experince from old days much easier. You can fix things that other people think is unfixable...etc.Computer development is one of the fastest developing things in world, and even so you can rely on your experience. Maybe I'm wrong, but the real life tells me that you can use your own experience even if it's quite old. I'm sure they wouldn't start developing the 2011 cars looking back on 15 or more years old data, but they can find tips and tricks, and maybe they can find a solution faster than new teams based on that data. It's just common sense.

On the end, you have to have the right people to do all of that. If you don't, than it's the end of the story, regardeless if it's a new or old team.

[kalinka]

I think that RBR will definitely hold on to their advantage in 2011, especially since the majority of their team will remain the same. Same drivers, engineers, management, etc. And don't forget the general continuation of the rules from this season.

Hopefully it's not the case though, even though it has been nice to see someone else besides the usual two teams winning for the past two years. I would like for Williams, Sauber, and Force India to be in the fight as well.

+1

We need another team to step up and fight. Force India was promising last year. Now it's Williams sometimes, but not a breaktrough yet.

[BreezyRacer]

Personally I think the racing is pretty tight these days in F1. I think we're more likely to see one of the semi top tier teams (McLaren, Ferrari, and I would have to say Renault) make strides over the winter and pressure RB early. Probably Renault I think.

But even if they get that jump RB will be back on the point by the Euro swing.

[aral]

Really the only thing that has changed is who is paying the bills.

That alone -in my books- explains why they sucked this season after last year's success... Old BAR / / Honda squad mojo at work I don't see them getting any better for 2011, and also can't see why they'll end up any differently than Honda did. I say "no such team as Mercedes GP" come 2014.

I disagree. The problem with Honda was that they kept intervening with the management of the team. They kept shifting engineers around. They would bring their own people in from Japan, let them spend sometime in the team, then took him out again and replace them with some new people. Since Brawn came in they let Brawn took control and see how well 2009 went for the team. The problem with this year's car was that the team was essentially underfunded in 2009 when they were developing this year's car. Remember they only had something like 150 million to spend last year. That's a fraction of what the other big teams are spending.

If Mercedes are willing to spend a decent amount of money in the team, I reckon they will be fighting for wins again next year or 2012.

[SiLo]

It's nice to see what people think. I think that it's simply swings and roundabouts. Personally I feel Red Bull will be quick next year but won't have the advantage they carried this year, and that it will be much like '07 '08 when Mclaren and Ferrari were so closely matched at pretty much every track. With possibly four teams providing that sort of racing, it will make for a very intense season.

On a side note, the drivers that had used KERS may have an advantage over those who haven't, knowing specific places on tracks to use it for better effect etc.

[marcush.]

In my book the pirelli tyr eis likely to favour some teams that have by luck or competence a good handle on their car design being in sync with the pirelli characteristic.
Also somne drivers will go better with the pirelli tyre so here i see as well a change of balance.
Plus ,w ewill see a reintroduction of KERS not a single team that used it in 2009 were to be found at the front back then...So Red Bull one of the few teams with No experience with Kers I believe they will find it a bit difficult to retain their advantage.
But of course it all could well work for Newey but adding weight is not his strength.

[SiLo]

Yeah Red Bull would have to make some serious changes to fit it in their car because of the very tight packaging and pullrod suspension. It will be interesting to see if the teams that used it last year get off to a good start.

[marcush.]

adding to this ..I might add that the likes of Mercedes,Mclaren etc are now trying to play catchup on aeroflex research and implementation whereas RedBull is
already looking into the next hot property...be it successful or not Newey seems to be good for a few more spectacular ideas till retirement in my view...
But what happens if FIA decides to really stop this drag depending elasticity?
No big thing for RB ..they are only deleting something they developped for 2009/10...For ALL others it will be :put your main effort for 2011 into the trashcan..bad news really....
So,to my mind it is very dangerous for teams to follow into a direction wich is build on very thin ice...with all the moaning in paddock and reluctance of Merc and macs to join the flexy fraction this might come back as a boomerang to them.

[lebesset]

the reason for the dominance of RB is that FIA testing methods have not kept up with a certain mr newey

expect changes for next season !

[marcush.]

as I said..that will hurt RedBull less than the others as they can already do research on the next hot ticket.

[ahab]

Teams Don't get to the top For long periods of time by luck.
Newey designed a brilliant car for 2009 and even without the DDD performed above all the established teams, even changing to the DDD was a problem because of the design of the pushrod rear suspension.

This year they hit the ground running and maintained largely have maintained that advantage through the year.

There is no reason to doubt they won't be a force to be reckoned with next year.

[marcush.]

tbh ..teams changing tyre supplies inevitably did struggle more or less..I cannot remember a team not beeing affected by this more or less .Even a change of tyre size or coinstruction has shown these effects ,so deriving from this RedBull surely having no issues at all is a bold claim but not a sure thing.
Same goes for KERS...so two variables in the equation anyone with a minium maths knowledge would call this a proper case of very unpredictable results.

[WhiteBlue]

Having good leadership in engineering makes a big difference as we could just see in the case of James Key leaving Force India and joining Sauber. The trend has been a complete turn around for Sauber to the better and Force India to the worse.

So basically the budget and resource level and the quality of management are the most important factors for a team to be competitive and go to the top. I do not see both factors being under threat for Red Bull next year. They will pull in similar money from FOM and Mateschitz is not likely to spend less. Newey and his team will be still there.

Logic would dictate that Red Bull will remain at or at least near the top.

[donskar]

RE: Comments above that Newey is lucky and/or has gotten away with breaking/bending rules -- if you've followed F1 for more than a season or two, you know that Newey has been one of the top 2 or 3 designers for the last 10 or 15 years (or more).

As long as Red Bull supports him with realistic resources and RB's engine is not hopelessly underpowered, Newey will produce a very competitive car.

[marcush.]

newey as an example for good management an dleadership is a bit missing the point really.He scores on ingeniutity and possibly on a good gut feeling on what is worth pursuing but I´m not even sure if the guy knows why he´s more often right than wrong.
He is just a genius but we should not forget:
he has produced cars that not even were raceworthy with Mclaren,at March/leyton house he produced a car that was competitive on a single track (!)and at RB he produced designs not that special before the big rule change...So to derive anything from history is not worth anything in my view.
Many of the so all time geniuses of F1....be it Barnard,Murray ,Forghiri,ended with quitting sometime when their time was past...possibly when they lost interest or simply getting older and running out of new ideas/getting old stubborn men..(please forgive for THAT OFFENSE!if people related to the mentioned guys would ever read this i´m admiring all of them).So we do not know what direction Newey will guide his team or if he is already somewhere else with his head.