What Happened to Webber and Alonso?

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:10 pm

Rob W wrote:I can't help but feel that Alonso losing out on the title so closely was a perfectly fitting result considering the team orders incident earlier in the season. It feels like poor or unsporting behaviour has been rewarded too often in F1 and to see Ferrari losing by such a small margin - watching their chances get suffocated slowly while stuck behind non-challenging cars for 40 laps - was quite satisfying.


Or maybe it was fitting that Alonso lost out because Vettel had 10 poles and was in the fastest car? Alonso didn't lose out, Vettel won.

andrew wrote:The simple answer - they both choked. 'Nuff said! :lol:


Really? Alonso choked because he didn't win the WDC? If Alonso won the Championship it would have been a remarkable feat considering how much faster the RB6 was all season long. On the other hand; if one of the Red Bulls didn't win, that would have been an enormous choke.
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so" - Mark Twain
jwielage
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2007
Location: New York City

Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:10 pm

jwielage wrote:
Really? Alonso choked because he didn't win the WDC? If Alonso won the Championship it would have been a remarkable feat considering how much faster the RB6 was all season long. On the other hand; if one of the Red Bulls didn't win, that would have been an enormous choke.

Alonso was LEADING the wdc entering the last race. He came out behind Petrov, who was in a slower car, and made little effort to pass, despite having a car that was quicker. That is "choking".
And one of the Red Bulls did not win the race. That was Webber. He also choked.
gilgen
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2010

Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:14 pm

I can only presume you mean the team orders thing?
You know, something thats been part of F1 for over 50 years.
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:59 pm

strad wrote:I can only presume you mean the team orders thing?
You know, something thats been part of F1 for over 50 years.

Which means that stuff like rules can just f*ck off, right? After all, it has been part of F1 for over 50 years! :lol:
lolzi
 
Joined: 22 Aug 2010

Post Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:58 pm

gilgen wrote:Alonso was LEADING the wdc entering the last race. He came out behind Petrov, who was in a slower car, and made little effort to pass, despite having a car that was quicker. That is "choking".

The Ferrari might have been faster over a whole lap, the problem was that the Renaults were just so much quicker out of the corners and down the straights, so both Alonso and Hamilton were nowhere near them at the end of the straights. A bit difficult to make an effort to pass when the car in front is several car lengths in front of you. Alonso throwing the car off the track was his attempts to get somewhere near Petrov. I'm glad the spoilt brat didn't win, but no way could you class that as choking.
Techspeed
 
Joined: 1 Jun 2010

Post Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:35 am

I respect the sport, not rules put in place to mollify children.
If you want it this way, it should mimic the NASCAR example.
Separate sponsors and teams within a team.
IF you want two drivers on the same team then you have to allow them to act as a team.
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:27 am

The fact that people are saying that he choked or didn't is sort of silly. It's not taking into account all the other factors involved, like his team calling him in, Petrov driving out of his skin.

This was not a simple black and white issue, so trying to call it that way is utterly pointless and like trying to argue grey is a shade of black or white.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:32 pm

Giblet wrote:This was not a simple black and white issue, so trying to call it that way is utterly pointless and like trying to argue grey is a shade of black or white.

But dude...THAT is what this forum seems to be all about these days.
On the other hand...I agree that I don't think it had to do with choking..Perhaps some other factors but not choking.
BTW
For myself I will argue that grey (gray) is a lack of blackness. Thereby making it a shade of black. ;)
There are two things in this world that take no skill: 1. Spending other people’s money and 2. Dismissing an idea.
strad
 
Joined: 2 Jan 2010

Post Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:14 pm

OTRAST(off topic rant against stupid thread) Alonso and Hamilton both drive on a different level to the rest of the sport and they are the two best overtakers and probably the two best at high stress. If one of these two doesn't win the title evey year, then its all down to cars. Vettel couldn't beat either of them in the same car. He had a .5 second a lap advantage over the course of the year. Give Hamilton or Alonso that advantage and the title would've been locked up with 3 races to go. F1 really needs better tracks. Abu Dhabi's pathetic cart track neutered the title fight.F1 should run a test before accepting tracks. No overtaking then you get no grand prix. There,I just fixed F1.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher
Pierce89
 
Joined: 21 Oct 2009

Post Mon Nov 22, 2010 8:40 pm

Giblet wrote:The fact that people are saying that he choked or didn't is sort of silly. It's not taking into account all the other factors involved, like his team calling him in, Petrov driving out of his skin.

This was not a simple black and white issue, so trying to call it that way is utterly pointless and like trying to argue grey is a shade of black or white.

Why are everyone just concentrating on the final race alone??the season consist of 18 races!!
Fact is Alonso was way to error prone and inconsistent in the first 2/3 rd of the season....despite having a good car which can just stay behind the RBRs when the RBRs usually crash out or blow up, ... but no he didnt do that ....and coming the final race the team made mistake and now everyone are saying he was amazing and its coz of his team.
if Alonso lost the WDC despite having a good car then he has only himself to blame.
siskue2005
 
Joined: 11 May 2007

Post Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:35 pm

Who wasn't prone to errors this year?

Very few top drivers.

I think people are focusing on the last race because that was when the chips were down and it was make it or break it time.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:16 pm

Giblet wrote:Who wasn't prone to errors this year?

Very few top drivers.

Not as much as Alonso did
Alonso's errors and whining were really bad
I think people are focusing on the last race because that was when the chips were down and it was make it or break it time.


Thats pretty bad way to look at it, considering the season consists of lot more races

i was just against people saying the team lost the Championship for Alonso, when actually he was just not good enough in the first 2/3 rd of season, which is what lost him the WDC, not the Team!
siskue2005
 
Joined: 11 May 2007

Post Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:42 pm

Of course all the other races mattered. But this was the only race all year for four drivers could completely lose the championship, so this race was special, more so than all the others.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute
Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

Post Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:10 pm

It looked to me like a solution from heaven for RB. By pitting Webber they effectively put Vettel into the WDC, Alonso following Webber was the icing on the cake.
wittgenfrog
 
Joined: 31 Aug 2010

Post Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:33 pm

Not quite... If Alonso hadn't pitted then, and if Alonso had followed Jenson/Lewis/Sebastian's strategy then probably Alonso would've been champion
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

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