Importance of tires

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Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Importance of tires

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Nico on changes for 2010 from 2009
Nico Rosberg wrote:
“So we have 20% less downfore more or less, and have 17% more grip from the tyres, so lap time wise its going to be very similar I assume in the beginning of the year.

“Driving wise, its pretty similar, it really is. What has changed is the balance of the car. Relative to last year the main difference is that we have more oversteer in slow speed corners, and that is the one place were you can make a difference car performance wise.

“If you have less oversteer in slow speed corners because you have better aerodynamics or whatever else, that’s were you going to make a big difference.

“It just a lot of oversteer. That’s the main problem for us and that results in you needing to drive a bit differently. You need to be more cautious because you can’t…once the oversteer comes, you have lost out on that corner – you need to try and stay within the limits. So that means you drive differently, more cautiously when going into the corner – even more so then in past years when you already had to be pretty careful. It really requires an adaptation by the driver.

“That’s really the main difference to be honest.”
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Intego
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Re: Importance of tires

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One sentence would have sufficed. Downforce, grip, car balance, slow corners, oversteer.
Aren't you obligated to post a photo of him when mentioning his name? :lol:
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ak07
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Re: Importance of tires

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Arunas wrote:
ak07 wrote: Schumi would like to be able to dial in more or less steering angle to play with the cars rotation. This can really only happen if the car, near the limit, will lose rear grip before front. This, to work, requires a car that is comparatively soft in the rear and stiff in the front. This doesn't mean the car is balanced incorrectly and it also doesn't mean it is not using the full potential of the available grip at both axles. It only means that when near the limit, instead of the front falling off in terms of grip, the rear will do so first.
Not sure I understand you here. This is what Schumi said? Or it is your understanding what he thinks about it? Or this is your driving experience?
Observations,interviews and for sure, some guessing. Just because we are not privy to telemetry doesn't mean we are 100% in the dark as far as a drivers technique goes.

I feel its pretty apparent just watching Schumacher this year in comparison to other drivers...he seems very hesitant to push in anyway that will have the rear move around at all. Whether thats the car not being able to be setup to be comfortable, whether its the tires etc. etc. I don't know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=307n-6gyEqE
-Kimi and Schumi, I know, different cars, etc. etc. Look at the difference in style, its quite obvious Kimi has a more stable front end while schumi seems to be dealing with small oversteer situations in the middle of nearly every corner. Compare schumi here to a video of him in 2010, its quite obvious the car is not as front end dependent...or at least cannot be setup to be front end dependent without suffering from oversteer, which seems to be the case for Schumi in 2010.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4
-Obviously not as "in depth" as required to come to an actual hard conclusion, but there is mention of his use of the throttle more than the other drivers for more of the corner. Smoother throttle application would leave me to believe that the rear of the car would rotate too much with it setup the way schumacher's car was if he was to drive with more abrupt throttle inputs.



I'm sure there's a bunch of people here who will reply saying I have no proof, or I'm coming to a conclusion without any hard information etc. etc.

That's true. I still do think its fairly obvious just watching some onboards how different his driving is compared to his of previous years, to other drivers and to other drivers of previous years.

Alonso vs. Schumacher is a classic example. Pointy and twitchy Schumi seems to be best and a very stable rear and less direct front is when Alonso seems to be fast.

All I'm getting at is that tires affect a lot. Driving style affects a lot. Both have substantial effects on each other. I find it hard to argue that in anyway. Thus, I would be led to believe that changes in tires will effect both the drivers, some better, some worse and the development and pace of the cars, some better than others, some worse.

Goran2812
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Re: Importance of tires

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If a race is stopped and is unable to be restarted, a 30-second time penalty will be applied to those who have not made use of both the ‘Prime’ (harder) and ‘Option’ (softer) products.
what does this mean? let's say the race is to be stopped before they get the chance to change the tires... and for instance lotus came in the first lap and made the change... everyone gets 30 secs on their time except the lotus driver or what?
if so, are they mad???
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Intego
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Re: Importance of tires

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Goran2812 wrote:
If a race is stopped and is unable to be restarted, a 30-second time penalty will be applied to those who have not made use of both the ‘Prime’ (harder) and ‘Option’ (softer) products.
what does this mean? let's say the race is to be stopped before they get the chance to change the tires... and for instance lotus came in the first lap and made the change... everyone gets 30 secs on their time except the lotus driver or what?
if so, are they mad???
I too had to rub my eyes. Tactics to change tyres late will be a risk and it will be yet more likely to see most of the cars on similar tactics. What a mess! This year's rules weren't that bad, methinks.
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747heavy
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Re: Importance of tires

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Goran2812 wrote:
If a race is stopped and is unable to be restarted, a 30-second time penalty will be applied to those who have not made use of both the ‘Prime’ (harder) and ‘Option’ (softer) products.
what does this mean? let's say the race is to be stopped before they get the chance to change the tires... and for instance lotus came in the first lap and made the change... everyone gets 30 secs on their time except the lotus driver or what?
if so, are they mad???
Yes Goran,
I think this is what it means.
It will prevent some people from getting lucky, if the race is stoped before they have made their pitstop.

Not sure, if it is higher risk, to stop late, because I´m sure (depending on the track and situation) that a 30s penality, but keeping your track position is still a "good deal" ,compared to the teams who made a stop, and probably lost more time then that. (think coming out in trafic and beeing stuck etc.)

It just would prevent (as an example) HRT winning a race, by beeing lucky while they where running long, leading at this point, because they are the only ones not to have stoped yet, and then the race get´s red flaged.
At this point they would lead the race and beeing the winner, by having saved ~30s over anybody by not stoping.

Something like this happend a couple of years ago in V8SC´s if I remember correctly.
Race was stoped after a big crash, then countback to the last completed lap, and due to out of sequence pitstops, one team got lucky and won it.

I don´t think it´s such a big deal in reality (will not happen often), but I could do without the rule as well.
Last edited by 747heavy on 15 Dec 2010, 00:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Ciro Pabón
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Re: Importance of tires

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Tyre rules have changed yearly for the last 10 years, showing how a bureaucracy like FIA has to do something to believe it's working.

We have reached a point where it's far more interesting to discuss the rule changes than to talk about the races. Races are so even, so logically ordered and so rationally designed, because of the rules, that only money can bring a winner.

I wonder if teams have reached the point where the ordered list of team expenses is equal to the ordered list of team positions in the constructor's championship...

If that ordered lists are nearly equal or very similar, then, I think, the vicious circle started when the championship money was distributed according to championship positions has been completed.
Ciro

alelanza
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Re: Importance of tires

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I don't think i can agree with that view Ciro. I mean, there are no races going on at the moment, however we just got the new rules, it's only logical we're discussing that. I think 2010 was an amazing season. In fact everything since 2005, except maybe 2009, has been great.
In terms of money=win, i think Honda and Toyota will unhappily disagree with you.
Alejandro L.