David vs. Goliath(Red Bull vs. Ferrari), myth or truth?

[timbo]

The last time engine power was measured the Toyota and Renault were the least powerful engines at the end of 2009 and were something between two and three percent down - equating to around three tenths on average per lap.

Fuel efficiency? The top engine, the Mercedes, consumed around 0.05 kg more than the Renault and being the most powerful engine it doesn't take a genius to work out that it is in fact the most fuel efficient.

You call that numbers? Huh.

OK 0.3 sec per lap.
On which track?

Also, if 0.05 kg is per lap figure (once again which track?), then you have around 2% less consumption for Renault.

+1 on the suggestion that thread must be locked.

[Blackout]

AMuS said less than 2,5% between the Toyota (the least powerfl) and the Mercedes (the most powerful) in 2009.

[gridwalker]

Blackout, do you have a link for that?

[Blackout]

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/11/a ... e-in-2009/

[gridwalker]

Thanks for that

I was hoping that you might be quoting a different analysis of those figures, as I saw an article last year that used the same data set but which also provided a number of graphs for compariative purposes ... I will keep looking.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

And how did they attain these figures?

"Most teams reached the conclusion, based on acoustic analysis and GPS"

And how accurate is that? Last I checked a bench would be far more accurate than any accoustics unit, and as for GPS...well I dont know how accurate they can measure engine power solely from this, not very is my guess.

This very story mentions Cosworth having 770bhp...I guess this must be true then.
Why is Newey not banging on Coswroths door for a customer unit if the Renault is so inferior? He isnt, because they arent.


Red Bull are definatly a team that is the sum of all parts. Newey penned, loads of money, great resources and a very competitive engine.
The more we scratch the surface on these "figures" (unverified with no names attached you will notice)the more we see how far this urban legend has got to.

Almost forgot...Thanks for the link blackout.

Post script I will start a new thread regard the engine discreprencies save the mods locking this.

[segedunum]

Ahhhhh, critiquing the evidence we have available. Lovely. I'm pleased people have actually decided to read it afterall.

The teams use acoustics and GPS to make estimates about other teams' cars all the time. GPS is used to find out just how long a car can maintain top speed. The only difference is the accuracy and frequency to which they do it and how much information they have on their own car specifics - which we obviously won't get. No matter what figures anyone comes up with here it will be dismissed so it's a waste of time. Choose to dismiss it as rubbish if you like but please note that I will reference this thread in a couple of years when people bitch about VW's probable homologated advantage whereupon you will repeat the very arguments I have made here, and I will agree with you.

Just close this thread unless the topic of conversation changes. People are more touchy than I ever thought, possibly because the topic of how well various teams' chassis are actually doing is bit of a sensitive issue.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

About 50 posters have asked for facts, and yet I see none.

Heed Tomba's advice and stop posting on this thread until you are privy to the facts.