Where does the HRT money come from?

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ESPImperium
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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For the key personell how much would be a ball park figure for salaries for that list??? And for say 100 personell throughout the season what would be a ball park figure for that in sallaries???

What would you also recon would be a ball park figure for technichal support from other companies like McLaren Electronic Systems as well???

Just so i can try and get an accurate figure in a spreadsheet.

ESPImperium
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... -SearchBox

Intresting that Chandhok only brought €2m of his €8m deal for 10 races.

marcush.
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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here we get some ballpark figures :


30K GBP no2 Mechnics ,a bit more for a No1 mechanic
80K GBP chief mechanic
90K-350K for a Teammanager depending on teamsize

http://www.louisegoodman.com/folders/ca ... chanic.cfm

I´d say a engineer position is at the very least 45K € the top guys will ask and get a lot more...guess the average salary is around 65K GBP

You will have to consider expenditures through travelling for all the people you move around ,accomodation,meals,flights...
Last edited by marcush. on 11 Jan 2011, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.

ESPImperium
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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Im gonna say $1.2m to cover the KEY posistions and say $3.5 for all the 100 mechanics and other engineers, would that be roughly decent, or too much???

marcush.
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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how many mechanics would you need ? On weekends more than at home I´d say.
At the home base you need to keep track of all things ,CNc machinists ,modelmakers ,Laminators fitters ,Quality assurance,Draftsmen ,CAD,CFD,
FEM,the whole shebang .
Are those people in the 30K /annum range ? certainly not .5mill could be a bit on the weak side for a 100 headcount.
I don´t think all those people were engaged permanently with Kolles so maybe they
came away cheaper (Considering they did not much development on the car and outsourced -due to lack of internal recources -this will likely have rocketed their bills in terms of goods bought from subsuppliers...
with kolles named as the worst in terms of payments overdue ..and according to himself only getting COD.... i´d think they had almost everything coming from outside sources and the poor guys delivering on invoice had to wait for those 180 days ..

RAF
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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The question that bothers me that no-one has yet to answer is weather it's a new tub or not. Rumours persist that it is a new car developed on the old tub. Now correct me if I'm wrong but Dallara supplied HRT with three tubs. Now how many tubs need to be crashed in order to pass the new FIA crash tests for 2011? If they crash one for frontal and one for side impact that leaves them with just one tub! Dallara won't supply anymore since they cut ties. How do they get more? Dallara didn't supply the plans, just the cars IIRC. Are they supposed to give one tub to a third party contractor and ask them to simply copy it? It all seems rather far fetched and too close to call for my liking. And if it is a new tub, who designed and made it? If it's not made by now then surely it's too late. It they can't afford E100,000 to stay in FOTA, how can they afford to design and commission a new tub?

I'm not being negative here, I just like to have clarity. I love underdog teams and if they pull this off, I'd be amazed to hear the story of how they actually achieved it!

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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My best guess is that HRT will simply rip the IP from the Dallara chassis. They have intimate knowledge of the Dallara and the Toyota chassis. In every case they get charged with copying the IP they will simply say that they cannot be stopped to learn from what they are aware of. Geoff Willis should be well capable of reverse engineering a chassis which is available to him for close inspection. So I believe that they will simply reverse engineer the Dallara, incorporate some features they have seen in the Toyota, adapt to 2011 rules and the Williams gearbox. Relatively straightforward engineering job but still a costly exercise. My concern is still where the money for this activity has come from.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

RAF
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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So they have to reverse engineer the Dallara chaissis and any IP info they gained from Toyota, build enough tubs to crash test, build at least two complete cars from this info, pay Williams for rear end/gearbox/suspension ect, pay for engines and pay all these other third parties that are supposedly building the car and yet they can't afford E1000,0000 to remain part of FOTA? Sounds to me like they are climbing a mountain. Let's not forget that TATA won't pay the team a penny until Narain turns a wheel in an F1 car in a proper F1 championship race.

marcush.
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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assuming you need 50 guys designing the car and doing all the drawings ,Aero,CFD,FEM and what have you ...
and leave yourself 6 months to do it and fork out 100€ for each of them on a contractual base..
you have spent the first 8 million € .
then let someone build the thing on a contractual basis ...as Wirth said already ..for the price of a Veyron he delivers a Virgin to Booth thats 1.4Mill€ per car

so we are near 13 mill € for the 3 cars.

Add to this renting a proper windtunnel like Toyotas for say 20 days lets say toyata is charging 40k per day...and you got another million €

so thats 14mill€.

Frank williams will set you back 4mill€ with his Gearbox and Cosworth is charging 5 for the engine supply..

so we are near 24Mill€ for the whole shebang -and we still meet the RRA wich allows 30Mill outside spending..

unfortunatelly that covers just the engine and gearbox running cost...

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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Auto Motor und Sport has given some figures for the HRT team and some other teams.
(EUR budget/head count)
HRT ( 40m/120)
Virgin (60m/220)
Lotus (70m /240)
Williams(80m/-)
Force India(80m/-)
Toro Rosso (80m/-)
Red Bull (330m/315-350) head-count according to RRA
The RRA headcount for 2011 depends of the signature of the extension to 2017. If the extension is signed the headcount rises from 315 to 350.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 13 Jan 2011, 19:06, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

ESPImperium
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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Reverse engineering a car takes roughly 3 months to do. They havnt really had too much to do for almost the majority of 2010.

Im thinking the F110 will see more competition this year, id recon that it will be the F110B in effect, a new front wing and completly new rear end and rear wing will be in the order of the day. They have plenty of things to play with in effect.

However i also think they could pull a surprise with a good well packaged car from a small design team of less than 20 people including Willis.

Marcush have more or less the total spend more or less, as Hispanis will spend roughly $45m this season, and with staffing costs and the $12m free freighting costs from DHL that hey get, id recon that Hispania will make it to the start. Im thinking theyr new car could just make it to the Bahrain test, and only just.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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AMuS see a much higher budget than $45m with €40m and a stronger team of 120 engineers and mechanics on a full time basis.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

ESPImperium
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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A $45m would iundeed sound too low, where as a €40m would equate to a $53m budget, whitch looks alot healthier. Taking that you multiply dollars by 1.3 gives you the euro rate roughly.

120 staff would indeed be much healthier as well, with roughly a third of them in the design office, i think things are healthy in the HRT camp.

I am following their story quite closely.

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WhiteBlue
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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Then we just have the question left who is investing in HRT to enable this budget.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

andrew
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Re: Where does the HRT money come from?

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WhiteBlue wrote:Then we just have the question left who is investing in HRT to enable this budget.
Private investors is the likely source. Tony Teixeira is the only one that is publicy known but there are probably several like him. Question answered.