Kubica's Recovery

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turbof1
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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pocketmoon wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Is there an outlook of technology to make it possible? 10 years ago, things like cybernetics were things only existant in films and video games, but today it could be appliable. Purely surgical there is nothing they can do for him, but if he is willing to take risks there might still be an outlet.
Modern prosthetics are getting better and better and some people with limited hand use are opting for amputation so they can have *something* that gives more function than what they have.

But it's a huge step to have a hand removed, even a poorly functioning one. It looks to me from the limited video footage of Kubica that he'd have more 'day to day' function from a prosthetic but these devices aren't ready for F1 :/

I had the chance to ask Mark Webber about Kubica's dream of returning to F1 and he was very sensitive in his answer, that F1 was more and more like flying a fighter jet and that with physical difficulties you could still fly a regular plane it would be a big challenge to fly a fighter and he didn't think a comeback was possible for him.

Rob
I am not directly saying to remove and replace the arm, but more to insert implants to support and enhance motion. Probably only a theoritical excercise, but the medical has made huge leaps in this regard. Possibly the technology and know how already exists, but might contain still too much risks and lacks approval and legality. Still, I do hope that within a few years they can get there and aid him, along many others.

The most important thing would be that neurological the hand and arm still function correctly. If it is purely a 'biomechanical' problem, a possible solution is less complicated and less dangerous.
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GitanesBlondes
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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netoperek wrote:Nearly impossible for now, You should add. In the very same interview he has stated that the only person who should know what Kubica can or cannot do is himself. He also recently said that he can drive an F1 car now, but lacks strenght and arm rotation to complete a full year at full speed, so there's no point trying. For now. In yesterdays interview he stated that F1 is NOT definitely gone. But he's not there yet ant there's just too much ifs and buts. There are rumors he will have another surgery after GB rally, maybe that's one of them.
To be honest, I'm not overoptimistic and 100% confident about RK's F1 return, but I really think that definite conclusions and statements, either way are out of place here. Until Robert himself declares there's not a slightest chance of return, no one should say it either.
Given how ultra-competitive these guys tend to be, they could be missing limbs completely, and they'd still believe they could go out there and compete on some level. I wouldn't expect him to wave the white flag regarding a possible F1 return as that'd be admitting to mental weakness. Any high caliber professional sportsman believes he can win on any given day regardless of whatever the odds stacked against him may be. The other thing to consider as well, is that what happens to his sponsorship deals if he announces a F1 comeback is not ever going to happen? He has a strong drawing power based on his F1 career as seen by how many people still hope to see him driving in Formula 1 again. Take away that dream --for sponsors and fans-- and there's not as much incentive to give him significant backing for WRC2 and WRC. There's a lot of reasons to not raise the white flag that go beyond simply being unable to drive.

Certainly F1 is not "definitely gone", yet one can't turn a blind eye to the increasing likelihood he is not going to drive a F1 car outside of somewhere like Goodwood in this lifetime.
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Kubica's car after he crashed in SS4 (Rally GB)

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Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

MadMatt
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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His second crash of the rally:

Image

I maintain what I've been saying: this guy is dangerous.

netoperek
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Then take a look at the onboard. He was told that this is a "seven", very fast corner, by the time pilot corrected himself (it was a "three", much slower one) it was too late. You can even hear Kubica is bit dissapointed at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dANFiyLk9Bk#t=26

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Scorpaguy
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Been meaning to post this for awhile...i attended Rally Spain a few weeks back and got quite close to RK for an extended period of time. My 2-cents:

1. the arm/hand is not well...not progressing as it was.
2. F1 is not going to happen
3. on the podium he was embarrassingly asked more about F1 than Rally...I think he seemed to be setting his sites on WRC...and even this is not certain due to shifter regs.

However, he seemed to be quite happy in the rally setting.

Manoah2u
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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turbof1 wrote:
pocketmoon wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Is there an outlook of technology to make it possible? 10 years ago, things like cybernetics were things only existant in films and video games, but today it could be appliable. Purely surgical there is nothing they can do for him, but if he is willing to take risks there might still be an outlet.
Modern prosthetics are getting better and better and some people with limited hand use are opting for amputation so they can have *something* that gives more function than what they have.

But it's a huge step to have a hand removed, even a poorly functioning one. It looks to me from the limited video footage of Kubica that he'd have more 'day to day' function from a prosthetic but these devices aren't ready for F1 :/

I had the chance to ask Mark Webber about Kubica's dream of returning to F1 and he was very sensitive in his answer, that F1 was more and more like flying a fighter jet and that with physical difficulties you could still fly a regular plane it would be a big challenge to fly a fighter and he didn't think a comeback was possible for him.

Rob
I am not directly saying to remove and replace the arm, but more to insert implants to support and enhance motion. Probably only a theoritical excercise, but the medical has made huge leaps in this regard. Possibly the technology and know how already exists, but might contain still too much risks and lacks approval and legality. Still, I do hope that within a few years they can get there and aid him, along many others.

The most important thing would be that neurological the hand and arm still function correctly. If it is purely a 'biomechanical' problem, a possible solution is less complicated and less dangerous.
this would usher in a whole new interesting discussion point, because if it is a benefit to the driver, you could concider it driver aid and thus could become an unfair advantage. Why would a driver with a 'slight' handicap be allowed to use mechanical devices for improvement, but a normal driver would not be allowed? how could you ever regulate that? I don't think you can. Imagine a good olypmic sprinter losing a leg and then getting a prostetic, then beating usain bolt breezing by. It would be unfair advantage, even though not using it would pose a handicap.
Therefor, it would never happen. It cant be regulated. And if without F1 is impossibile, it's impossible. Simple as that.
I think kubica should apply for race of the champions.

And i must say, he seems to crash HARD quite regurarly. He had that very hard F1 accident [not his only hefty crash], then we have this serious near-fatal rally crash and after his comeback in rally he had several other crashes. And romain gets labeled crashkid?
I rather think Robert is like Felipe - something more then just the fysical aspect might have gotten damaged. MAssa isn't the same after his 'crash'. I think that would be the case exponentially more for Kubica just as well.

I think people should just start to accept Kubica has gone as far as he's able to go now. There will no way be any progress anymore, and so, what he's doing now is where his border is. And if he's happy with it, good for him, he should be very happy seeing how fortunate he is with the recovery. I could see him even doing NASCAR or DTM. Perhaps even Le Mans.
It just depends on how much restrain he is performing with his right arm handicap [if that is really the problem, the handicap may just as well be something entirely different].
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Donuts
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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MadMatt wrote:His second crash of the rally:

I maintain what I've been saying: this guy is dangerous.
Is'nt this what you said when he crashed in WRC2? Then what happened? I just can't take you seriously.
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netoperek
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Manoah2u wrote:
...

this would usher in a whole new interesting discussion point, because if it is a benefit to the driver, you could concider it driver aid and thus could become an unfair advantage. Why would a driver with a 'slight' handicap be allowed to use mechanical devices for improvement, but a normal driver would not be allowed? how could you ever regulate that? I don't think you can. Imagine a good olypmic sprinter losing a leg and then getting a prostetic, then beating usain bolt breezing by. It would be unfair advantage, even though not using it would pose a handicap.
Therefor, it would never happen. It cant be regulated. And if without F1 is impossibile, it's impossible. Simple as that.
I think kubica should apply for race of the champions.

And i must say, he seems to crash HARD quite regurarly. He had that very hard F1 accident [not his only hefty crash], then we have this serious near-fatal rally crash and after his comeback in rally he had several other crashes. And romain gets labeled crashkid?
I rather think Robert is like Felipe - something more then just the fysical aspect might have gotten damaged. MAssa isn't the same after his 'crash'. I think that would be the case exponentially more for Kubica just as well.

I think people should just start to accept Kubica has gone as far as he's able to go now. There will no way be any progress anymore, and so, what he's doing now is where his border is. And if he's happy with it, good for him, he should be very happy seeing how fortunate he is with the recovery. I could see him even doing NASCAR or DTM. Perhaps even Le Mans.
It just depends on how much restrain he is performing with his right arm handicap [if that is really the problem, the handicap may just as well be something entirely different].
Oh... this is going to be a long post. Sorry If it looks like a fanboism, I will do my best to be objective.
I entirely agree with the first part. There's no way to regulate such aid. So if Kubica is to ever be back in F1, he'll have to do it the hard way. In his own words, the rehabilitation progress done this year is huge, so I wouldn't be so fast to write him off just yet.
About the rest... I'd rather You stayed honest with facts.
So You're saying that winning a world title during a debut year in a category that, while was just a hobby, nearly killed him, means that he has some psychological restraints? Curious. You almost labeled Kubica the true crash kid. How many more crashes, apart from the famous Canada, can You recall? I just looked up the stats since Canada (10.06.2007) for You, so You can test Your theory easier: in remaining 10 GPs he attended in 2007 1 DNF - mechanical failure. 2008 - 2 DNFs - attacked from behind by Nakajima in Australia and trapped in gravel-pit at Silverstone (IIRC in a rainy weather with a car with broken suspension, which even forbidden him to complete the qually, but thats irrelevant), hardly a hard crash. In 2009 3 DNFs - Malaysia - mechanical failure, Monaco - mechanical failure, Monza - mechanical failure. 2010, also 3 DNF's - GB - mechanical failure, HUN - bizzare situation with Sutil in pitlane and in consequence, some laps later finished in pits, Japan, badly mounted tyre fell off. Thats it. No trauma related kamikaze style or limitations, quite the oposite thou, Kubica won the next Canadian GP after the accident, and for quite a long time in 2008 he was a serious title contender. Pity BMW decided to cut development early in the season... As with rallying. Accidents happen there quite often, its not F1. He won WRC2 Championship thats for one. He had a harsh start, thats true, but kept cool when it mattered, and You just cannot say he was slow. And about this last accident... Rallies are a team effort, co-pilot is quite important there and can make mistakes too. Kubica had a week to find a new copilot, when M. Baran, couldn't go, so for M. Ferrara it was a first time with Robert. Plus he had to change notes language to italian, plus this was a first rally in a DS3 WRC plus first time in Wales, so I guess we can't make any serious judgment in those conditions?
Maybe some opinions by people who actually know the sport will be more convincing. There's a guy, named Seb Ogier, who happens to know a thing or two about rallying. He said today: " To debut in GB, with a new pilot - I just can't imagine that! It was a tough rally for him, but he proved that when something has 4 wheels and a steering wheel he will have great pace straight away. Huge talent". There's also certain Jari Mati Latvala, who You might know. His comment: "I knew he would do good, but not that good (commenting on pace). A thought that I could start this rally with a new pilot and in a different language is a total abstraction to me!"
I hope that this data is sufficient to conclude, there's rather no psychological handicap in Kubica's case and he's not "another Massa".

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GitanesBlondes
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Manoah-

His Canada 2007 crash was Trulli's fault. He squeezed Kubica onto the grass coming down to the hairpin.
"I don't want to make friends with anybody. I don't give a sh*t for fame. I just want to win." -Nelson Piquet

Manoah2u
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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GitanesBlondes wrote:Manoah-

His Canada 2007 crash was Trulli's fault. He squeezed Kubica onto the grass coming down to the hairpin.
My bad, my memory serves me different then actual history it seems.

Don't understand me wrong, I think Kubica was a great F1 driver. I'm not saying he's psychologically 'damaged',
i just think there might be more then meets the eye. It's stunning that he's able to compete on such a level in
Rallye after 2 major accidents. However, at the moment, he is able to engage in rally, but he isn't able to engage
in F1. F1 is a far higher league then Rallye, obviously.
What i'm trying to say is that i wouldn't be surprised if the near-fatal crash also mentally affected him in such a
way that it could be an obstacle to enter F1. Some overcome [Lauda, Kubica pre-BMW accident], some overcome
but seem to have some inexplicable difference that wasn't there before [massa].
It could be that its a combination of factors that prevent Kubica to ever get into F1 again.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

zonk
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Happy 29th Birthday to Robert Kubica - FIA Personality of the Year!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPvpHVWhZr4[/youtube]

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zonk
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Mandrake
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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Another rally, another crash :shock:

Slow crash this time, but still managed to set his car on fire :?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy2_tw-QPCU[/youtube]

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SectorOne
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Re: Kubica's Recovery

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To me Kubica is the best driver you will ever see not to enjoy a career in F1.
I still haven´t grasped the fact that he won´t be joining F1 again and finish what he started.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

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