"Red Bull a drinks company"

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

I think there is some point to what Hamilton says.

He is stating a fact, however harsh or misguided his intentions. Mercedes, Mclaren Ferrari et al, can all apply what they learn into their road cars. Of late that hasnt been much, but still it applies specifically to them.
Red Bull are one big marketing excercise, a very powerful and succesful one at that.
What can they learn from some new technology and apply to their everyday product?

[Goran2812]

Well, I'd like to see facts and numbers that back up the assertion that they have gone over the budget cap, apart from sour grapes being leaked from meetings by various individuals.
They're certainly not a 'small' team Red Bull, but I doubt they're spending what Ferrari are, for example.

Like I said, i wanna see the numbers too... There could be some surprises there,who knows... or maybe not!
They're not a small team... Over the years they have become organised and recognized in F1, just like McLaren and Ferrari and there is no denying that...

We know they have a lot more to win. However, there is more to it than that and this is the attitude I don't get, and it comes down from what Hamilton said. McLaren and Ferrari don't have some intrinsic right to be at the top of the sport and keep winning based on their past history. The real world doesn't have much respect for reputations. If it did, you wouldn't get extinctions.

Totally agree with you! Make them fight and earn the right to be on the top again... That's what racing should be about... Was Hamilton even aware of what he said? lol... He's probably bitter that he won't be in the chase from the start of the season so he said some dumb things...
If Red Bull continue like they ended 2010, and continue like that for a longer period of time, and McLaren and Ferrari don't find a way to respond, well... It's gonna be Houston we have a problem situation in the silver and red garage...

The fact of the matter is that Formula 1 exists off the back of sponsorship and backing from lots of commercial organisations of many types. It has for almost fifty years. If Mateschitz wants to hook up the marketing of his soft drinks and a Formula 1 team in a mututally beneficial way, grab the bull by the horns (no pun intended) and take control to ensure their success then they deserve any success he gets for sticking his neck out.
I don't think Lewis has increased his chances of getting a Red Bull drive, let's put it that way. Mind games? Hardly. He sounds a little like his former Spanish team mate did, and sometimes still does, to be honest.........

=D>

[Ciro Pabón]

...

Sheesh, you really do have an axe to grind!

Joke aside, could you find a way to release your LH quotes database? You could spare the world some serious man-hours.

Well, it doesn't take time. I just googled for "Lewis Hamilton strange stupid statements". He is an extraordinary driver; how else are we going to describe a person that wins the F1 championship in his first season? I confess I'm surprised, because I mainly read The Independent, so the bull manure I found was astonishing, because I wasn't aware of the many foolish things he have said elsewhere. He is a gold mine for his competitors...

For example, I spend two minutes more and I found I have to be Kimi Raikkonen as there isn't a game with me in it yet, I really believe that my talent is God-given. I know I'm truly blessed. and I've always believed I was born to win.

I realize British press doesn't help. Jackie Stewart says: He'll set the benchmark for everybody. He's a genius.

Oh, my. The word spoiled falls short in so many levels...

[kalinka]

He is stating a fact, however harsh or misguided his intentions. Mercedes, Mclaren Ferrari et al, can all apply what they learn into their road cars. Of late that hasnt been much, but still it applies specifically to them.Red Bull are one big marketing excercise, a very powerful and succesful one at that.What can they learn from some new technology and apply to their everyday product?

+1 , and vice-versa what can they learn of producing soft drinks which apllies to F1 ? It's only marketing. I'm not against Red Bull, they're doing a very good job, but I don't see them in F1.. let's say 10 years from now. For a limited time, they can get good benefits from F1, but not in long term. Just until they found something more intersting, or with more market value. Then they'll leave F1 without problems. Their existence and profit hardly depends on F1.

[Richard]

This proves that the frantic mind of an f1 fan can blow a simple comment out of all proportion.

Anyone who takes the comments quoted by Ciro seriously needs to lie down for a while.

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, each and every comment has a source and is strictly quoted. I'm not making things up, sorry if that disturbs Mr. Hamilton fans. As I said, I'm the most surprised by what I'm finding when reading for the first time his quotations. It's not like I have a grudge against him.

I know I didn't take time to highlight any driver foot-in-mouth while a mod, for obvious reasons, so I apologize in advance if someone finds that now I am rocking the boat, but Richard... I'm not lying (down or through my teeth).

[gibells]

Red Bull just a drinks company? Well it seems better than being 'just a car company'. The bloke behind it all- Dieter, he gets to sign off the expenditure doesn't he? Not like Mercedes who have to answer to the board, or Williams who have to take payments from 'dictators' to balance the books these days, or even 'Renault' who have the looming guillotine of a sharky, shakey, venture capitalist who only sees things in red or black.

[segedunum]

Mercedes, Mclaren Ferrari et al, can all apply what they learn into their road cars.

Do they? In the case of Ferrari it's very little (aluminium is still the best?) and in the case of Mercedes it's absolutely none at all. McLaren are the only organisation who've gone in reverse where they've really put their racing engineering into their road going cars.

A lot of manufacturers have thought over the past decade or so that there would be some magical 'synergy' between a Formula 1 team and their other four wheel activities. In reality they've found none at all, even when they've started winning, in the case of Renault.

Red Bull are one big marketing excercise, a very powerful and succesful one at that. What can they learn from some new technology and apply to their everyday product?

You're looking at this the wrong way. It's not about what they sell but a state of mind as a company. Their image from their disgusting sugar drink is all about being the highest, fastest and strongest and what they're doing now is going out and applying it. The sugar drink is merely a stepping stone to lots of other spin-offs, and conveniently provides them with lots of financial backing. Red Bull are showing others the way to get involved in Formula 1 if they have the guts.

In reality, Red Bull Racing's reason for being is far more cemented than any car manufacturer who has been around in the past decade. Formula 1 cars have four wheels, but there the similarity ends. If that team was still Jaguar Newey, Promodrou and the rest would have got disillusioned and left years ago because of interference and lack of clarity from the top down.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Seg,

Perhaps not apply to current cars, but there is a more of an affinity to being an engineering led firm building and designing your own KERS and Engines, to that of buying it off the shelf with your energy drinks earned cash

Disagree if you must, but I dont get the urge to experience any oversteery moments in a Red Bull can, whereas I would love to play in a 458 and get the feeling of being Alonso/Hamilton/Schumacher...if only for one captivating moment.

The real reality here is Red Bull are there to sell drinks, and Mercedes Ferrari and McLaren etc are there to sell cars. I see what Hamilton was trying to say, and it got up a few Red Bull fans noses. Now the REAL question is, when they jack in F1(and they will at some point)will Red Bull fans become X-treme sports fans by default(or whatever it is they decide to emblish with their considerable cash)?

[Giblet]

You think the 'I dont think Red Bull gives their drivers equal opportunities, its there for us all to see' was a mundane statement too, or was he just joking with the Heikki/Alonso years in the back of everybodies memory?

I find it perplexing someone actually thinks Hamilton was not taking aim at Red Bull and stir people up with this degrading comment.

Meanwhile, The Guardian also runs the 'just a drinks company' headline

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ma ... s-hamilton

As does Metro:

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/858740-mcl ... ks-company

So while you want us to treat drivers with respect, perhaps you should send a note to Hamilton to do the same with fellow F1 teams like Red Bull that are kicking all that Mclaren/Ferrari talk way down the hole.

Since ESPN purposefully mangled the quote to stir up types that are easily stirred up, it's OK that the Guardian and the Metro (Metro is a train station rag for people with grade 8 reading level)to also mangle the quote? He obviusly took aim at Red Bull, but was willfully and purposefully misquoted by an ESPN hack.

It's not.

The change made by ESPN and copied by others mis represents what was said no better than the National Enquirer.

The fact that Lewis said something disrespectful does not give others free reign to drop down to that level.

After a realization that you have been duped by poor reporting of old news, maybe it's time to consider if any articles were just taken and absorbed in the same way in the past, forming opinions.

[PlatinumZealot]

Giblet, how is what he said disrespectful?

They are a drinks company. And they did knock Ferrari and Mclaren off the top.

He is just trash talking RBR.. mind games. All modern athletes do it. Mike Tyson, Maurice green, every wrestler that ever lived and many, many more athletes. It's trash talking and it does work.

[bot6]

Benetton was just a fashion label...

And is Benetton still in the sport?

McLaren and Ferrari are!

[WhiteBlue]

This isn't a new discussion at all. It has been raging at Autosport BB for some months. It has only become more public because Hamilton was unwise enough to publicly voice the opinion that many McLaren and Ferrari fans hold.

The funny side is that Ferrari have been using F1 successfully for the almost exclusive promotion of their products although their road cars have very little to do with the technology and specification of F1 cars.

Bernie Ecclestone has long been a promoter of F1 as a platform for global brand building and brand awareness. From the very first days of professional advertising in F1 by brand related liveries it weren't the automotive brands that took centre stage but tobacco brands. F1 fans never minded about their heroes sporting drug brands and helped to spread the addictive and cancer generating products over the world. Smoking, drinking and bonking James Hunt became the larger than life hero figure for that fan attitude.

Hamilton's and many fan's complaints at this particular time are a thinly veiled reaction to an experience of sour grapes. Last year Red Bull played the branding game masterfully and beat Ferrari by more than a factor of two in terms of TV exposure and news paper columns. They managed to exploit the Vettel/Webber antagonism to the maximum while Ferrari and Alonso were pushed into the villain role of the motor racing soap opera. Red Bull played with high stakes and won against all expectations. I have nothing but applause for their efforts and achievements.

Hamilton is developing into the "enfant terrible" of F1. He happens to drive for one of the most successful teams in F1 history and he got to this position by a large dose of attention from Ron Dennis. Perhaps he simply had it too easy compared to other stars like Alonso or Vettel, who had to make do with lesser cars at the start of their F1 career. He may have missed out on some of the character building stuff that drivers like Jenson Button got in tons.

It is very conceivable that F1 in the future will not automatically present preferential brand building opportunities to automotive brands like Ferrari and McLaren. The rule book superiority these days is firmly in the hand of FOTA and the automotive brands do not have a majority in the teams' association. This could influence how engine and chassis competence may impact on the competitiveness of the total race car. Top independent teams like Red Bull could well commission their own drive train by employing competent suppliers or finding a slot as a works team of a top F1 engine maker who may join the club in the future.

I would not hold my breath for Red Bull loosing their grip on the most competitive F1 designer and designs any time soon.

[raymondu999]

TO be fair though, Hamilton did get quite a bit of character building in 09 with that dog of a car.

[Hangaku]

In conclusion:

1) Driver makes comment about rival team
2) Haters step up
3) Fanbois step up
4) Thread derails, turns into same willy waving exercise between fanbois and haters

For the love of dog, change the record people.