"Red Bull a drinks company"

[Richard]

You missed out step 5:

5) people start adding 6 tents, photocopiers & moderator bias to the conversation

[Just_a_fan]

I wonder how many posters to this thread have actually read the originally linked story and the extensive quote from Hamilton therein?

He is making a valid comparison between Red Bull as a marketing exercise (which has been hugely successful in a large number of areas, not just F1) and the long term racing heritage of Ferrari and McLaren (and by implication Williams and Renault too). He just says that he thinks Red Bull won't be around as long as Ferrari and McLaren nor that Red Bull have the same automotive links to F1 as Ferrari and McLaren.

It has a historic ring to it too - it reminds me of Enzo Ferrari's disdain of the "garagistas". I wonder if history will see Red Bull carry on as successfuly as the garagistas did. History has shown Ferrari and McLaren can bounce back from long periods without success, I think it will show them doing the same again.

Overall though, I think Hangaku has the whole thread summed up nicely.

[CHT]

sounds like Lewis hoping that this drink company will quit F1 soon so that Mclaren and Ferrari can start dominating the sports again.

Then again, is there any excitement left in winning without strong competition?

talk about marketing excercise, I think lewis is probably the undisputed champion

[raymondu999]

I think what Lewis is saying is, Ferrari and McLaren will continue to be the superpowers. Red Bull are strong now, but it's flash dominance. It could be 1 year, could be 20 years. But it won't last. At one point in time they will leave. But McLaren and Ferrari are part and parcel of it.

Or maybe he's simply talking of Red Bull and not Red Bull Racing?

[Ciro Pabón]

Step 6) Complains to mods when people say things you disagree with...

This is going to be one of these long threads you have to check every time you come in.

Hamilton is not being disrespectful. He is being a little envious and disappointed, or so I think. He didn't complain about Red Bull sponsorship when he won the championship. That was the moment.

About garagistas, good point. It provides perspective.

However, JAF, garagistas lacked money. Now Red Bull is showing McLaren and Ferrari that, after so many years of them pushing for preferential treatment and political jockeying, they are getting a dose of their own medicine.

They, big racing teams, converted (and not by being "evil", but forced by economics) somehow F1 in a sport where money rules, and where the winner get it all, specially the TV money. Now, anyone can do it, with enough money and determination, as Red Bull has proven.

It's not a particular problem of F1, is a thing that has happened to all sports in the last 20 years.

I wonder when will the first Chinese company decide to take F1 by assault. As pointed out, it would make an excellent platform for them and they just need the guts and the capital.

If you ask me, Hamilton quote is only a symptom of the impotence big sport teams have when confronted with rampant capitalism in sports, which uses it to advertise products largely unrelated with racing.

I know that the lack of coherence and self centering some of his other quotes show is something to be expected of a young man thrown into the PR shredding machine, as many others, poor guy that is obliged to keep McLaren on his shoulders by smiling to everybody and his dog. Like the puppet we see in CHT pictures. He has all the talent in the world, but he hasn't the money to predict the true effort behind him.

NASCAR biggest sponsor is a phone company (Sprint). Fujitsu moves V8 Supercars. Indy cars relies on IZOD (a clothing company).

UEFA is sponsored by Ford, Heineken, MasterCard, Sony and Unicredit and their large TV ads that block front rows in some stadiums show you that they do not care too much about traditional soccer. Heck, Adidas is a secondary brand.

Tour de France is sponsored by LCL Banque, Vitel and Carrefour, not by bicycle companies.

You can do the same exercise with almost any sport: the ones in danger of disappearing are the firms that actually produce the stock material needed by the athletes, which have become living ads for companies vaguely related with the sport.

Red Bull shows where big firms are headed: not to be a part of the team, a sticker and a logo somewhere, but to be the team.

McLaren, being forced to sell shares for capital for years to some Sheiks (how are they related to car racing?) is a living proof that producing the material doesn't give you special rights in this times. We all have seen the decline of many racing firms that seemed unbeatable by their strong connections with the spectacle. It's not the know how what counts, but the money. Know how, including the one Hamilton has, can be bought. Period.

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

You think the 'I dont think Red Bull gives their drivers equal opportunities, its there for us all to see' was a mundane statement too, or was he just joking with the Heikki/Alonso years in the back of everybodies memory?

I find it perplexing someone actually thinks Hamilton was not taking aim at Red Bull and stir people up with this degrading comment.

Meanwhile, The Guardian also runs the 'just a drinks company' headline

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ma ... s-hamilton

As does Metro:

http://www.metro.co.uk/sport/858740-mcl ... ks-company

So while you want us to treat drivers with respect, perhaps you should send a note to Hamilton to do the same with fellow F1 teams like Red Bull that are kicking all that Mclaren/Ferrari talk way down the hole.

Since ESPN purposefully mangled the quote to stir up types that are easily stirred up, it's OK that the Guardian and the Metro (Metro is a train station rag for people with grade 8 reading level)to also mangle the quote? He obviusly took aim at Red Bull, but was willfully and purposefully misquoted by an ESPN hack.

It's not.

The change made by ESPN and copied by others mis represents what was said no better than the National Enquirer.

The fact that Lewis said something disrespectful does not give others free reign to drop down to that level.

After a realization that you have been duped by poor reporting of old news, maybe it's time to consider if any articles were just taken and absorbed in the same way in the past, forming opinions.

If many media outlets are singing the same song I dont think the forming of an opinion is that much off the mark. Also, the adding of 'just' really describes the tone of his comments.

And if this was the first time Hamilton said such a questionable comment, you might have a point, but this is number 85 in a long list of stupid comments wich do nothing for him; the "monkey at the back, i get stronger from this, Im a team player but the team made me lie", etc.

You dont get respect, you earn it. And the tone from people who object to him in this thread is very, very mild compared to the outright bashfests at other forums.

Im not even a big Red Bull supporter but how he plays this ad hominem argument is a very low point. Goes to show apparently there arent any substantial arguments to be vented at the current leadership of Red Bull, and that the spanking of that simple drinks company to mclaren is really painfull.

And for all the people who like to say Mclaren is a car manufacturer: pulease. They being held up by Ojeh, and Mercedes family car selling business who bought Ilmor to get into F1. Get off your high horses already. And just like it remains to be seen how long Red Bull is in F1 (6 years now, almost 1/5th of their races won, longer than Stewart racing, Jaguar, BMW, Honda) it also remains to be seen if Mclaren can stay in the sportsccar selling business or dare I say it, can start winning championships again. Because the tally of the last 12 years have been very meager, so much the hamilton fangirl club have been speculating Hammy should move to...Red Bull. And just looking at the chances of Hammy moving to Red Bull with these statements...well, lets say it wasnt the wisest choice of words.

Edit: for all those who thought the monkey at the back was a racial comment by me; it is a quote from Hamilton himself on the drivers at the back end of the grid, wich also got him branded as a guy who has little respect for others, even by his number one fan James Allen:

http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/05/ ... e-with-f1/

"Hamilton described some of these drivers as ‘the monkeys at the back’ last season and that went down like a cup of cold sick. Few have any sympathy for him now"

Apologies if it created any confusion.

[Giblet]

Opinion? That is not how journalism works. You must get respect so as to not get misquoted? Puh-lease. It's ESPN's duty to report accurately what was said and not lead peoples thoughts with headlines that trick and deceive.

ESPN was playing tabloid games to get hits, and it worked.

Mclaren IS a car manufacturer, and have been since they made the ultimate super car that was untouched for a decade. They made these cars from 1992-1998, and now are making a complete line of cars.

Where the money comes from doesn't enter in to it at all. Red Bull beat Mclaren and it bugs them I am sure, and Mclaren are fired up to try to get back.

[Richard]

This whole thread is playing tabloid games.

Hamilton spouts words without thinking, Kimi used to say next to nothing but that is completely unrelated to the driving skills of winning the WDC.

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Hamilton had been in Kubica's shoes when he said he didn't care about Lotus, that they were only a sponsor?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Richard,

It still does not mean Hamilton is in the wrong. He simply stated Red Bull are a drinks company.
It's a fact.

They lack the prestige of McLaren Ferrari or Mercedes. That may be a bitter pill to swallow for RB fans, but the pill us manufacturer fans had to swallow watching them clean up last year was equally bitter

[Jimi_Hendrix_1967]

Where the money comes from doesn't enter in to it at all. Red Bull beat Mclaren and it bugs them I am sure, and Mclaren are fired up to try to get back.

Exactly and I totally agree. Wether the money comes from Ojeh, Mercedes or a drinks company, it doesnt matter.

Red Bull couldv taken the easy route and just be a big sponsor but they took the plunge, werent taken seriously but look at them now. Im actually happy they got to where they are now. Shows F1 isnt just a FIA circus juggling interests of big teams like Ferrari/Mclaren.

[Poleman]

Richard,

It still does not mean Hamilton is in the wrong. He simply stated Red Bull are a drinks company.
It's a fact.

They lack the prestige of McLaren Ferrari or Mercedes. That may be a bitter pill to swallow for RB fans, but the pill us manufacturer fans had to swallow watching them clean up last year was equally bitter

This post preety much sums up all this thread is all about...

Every post so far was either for RedBull defense caused by favoritism or for Hamilton criticism/bashing...

+1 JET

[Giblet]

Please keep the comments respectful, there is no need to start claiming drivers to be homosexual as first there is nothing wrong with that and second it's childish.

[Florio]

Richard,

It still does not mean Hamilton is in the wrong. He simply stated Red Bull are a drinks company.
It's a fact.

They lack the prestige of McLaren Ferrari or Mercedes. That may be a bitter pill to swallow for RB fans, but the pill us manufacturer fans had to swallow watching them clean up last year was equally bitter

+2

Personally I think 'Newey GP' would bring a more respected name to the team than Red Bull in the world of F1.

[Ciro Pabón]

... and the timing?

[gridwalker]

Personally I think 'Newey GP' would bring a more respected name to the team than Red Bull in the world of F1.

Personally, I respect Red Bull for having the balls to go all the way rather than playing it safe and remaining a mere sponsor.

Red Bull have been in the sport in one form or another since 1995 and have continually increased their level of investment. Red Bull started a young driver programme long before it became the norm, which has proven to be a highly successful venture by crowning the youngest champion that the sport has ever seen.

Red bull have sponsored many teams and drivers in a vast array of motorsport categories, investing huge amounts of money in formulae that have minimal media exposure. Many companies would shy away from such a huge investment (which will naturally bring diminishing returns) yet there has been no sign of Red Bull attempting to divest from their commitments, despite the recession.

Sales of the drink appear to have become the driver for the motorsport investment, rather than vice versa. Personally, I think this is to be applauded and that motorsport in general would be a poorer place without them (and their refreshingly irreverent attitude).

Some people might accuse me of being a Red Bull fanboy based on my avatar, but I'm only using that image because I took the photo myself : you might notice a ferrari in my signature and I am quite openly biased against them, so don't read too much into it

I don't see what people have against them for being a soft-drinks manufacturer : What difference does it make when they're winning?