Hamilton vs Button

[spinmastermic]

They all say the same but I don't believe any of them. When it comes to the end of the season a call will go out telling one of the drivers to pull over.

Everything is different at the end of the season, drivers will move over if they have no mathmatical chance. Its been like that for decades.

[andrew]

I'm not concerned with that but it is the dishonesty that gets me. It's as if some teams want to sound better than the rest, but they all use team orders no matter how much some claim they don't or won't.

[Diesel]

They all say the same but I don't believe any of them. When it comes to the end of the season a call will go out telling one of the drivers to pull over.

Source? No didn't think so, idle speculation.

[beelsebob]

Just to bring some actual facts back to this thread and bring it back on topic...

For 2011

Qualifying:
Hamilton 5 - 2 Button
Race:
Hamilton 4 - 3 Button
On Track Battles:
Hamilton 4 - 0 Button (+ 1 crash)
Points:
Hamilton 85 - 101 Button

My conclusion from that – Hamilton is faster; Button is being more consistent.

[andrew]

They all say the same but I don't believe any of them. When it comes to the end of the season a call will go out telling one of the drivers to pull over.

Source? No didn't think so, idle speculation.

Not idle speculation. Just the blatently obvious from years of watching F1.

[Diesel]

They all say the same but I don't believe any of them. When it comes to the end of the season a call will go out telling one of the drivers to pull over.

Source? No didn't think so, idle speculation.

Not idle speculation. Just the blatently obvious from years of watching F1.

Believe what you will, McLaren have lost world championships from allowing their drivers to race each other, and they've been heavily criticised for it in the past.

Your right though, it does happen alot in F1 and it does appear almost all the top teams back a single driver. I guess Vettel wouldn't be getting such an easy ride if Red Bull treated it's drivers equally.

[andrew]

Treating both drivers equally is not going to get results, but of course some drivers are faster than their team mates so the help from the team varies. Let them race each other and they'll knock each other off the track.

[beelsebob]

Treating both drivers equally is not going to get results, but of course some drivers are faster than their team mates so the help from the team varies. Let them race each other and they'll knock each other off the track.

The last 6 times they've raced each other on track that I can remember (5 this year, plus turkey last year), they've come out unscathed in 5 of them. In the 6th, I'm quite sure they would if button had seen hamilton. Your statement seems to have no grounding in fact.

[andrew]

Treating both drivers equally is not going to get results, but of course some drivers are faster than their team mates so the help from the team varies. Let them race each other and they'll knock each other off the track.

The last 6 times they've raced each other on track that I can remember (5 this year, plus turkey last year), they've come out unscathed in 5 of them. In the 6th, I'm quite sure they would if button had seen hamilton. Your statement seems to have no grounding in fact.

I was writing in general terms and not meaning anyone in particular but if you want to take what I write out of context, then by all means.

[beelsebob]

Treating both drivers equally is not going to get results, but of course some drivers are faster than their team mates so the help from the team varies. Let them race each other and they'll knock each other off the track.

The last 6 times they've raced each other on track that I can remember (5 this year, plus turkey last year), they've come out unscathed in 5 of them. In the 6th, I'm quite sure they would if button had seen hamilton. Your statement seems to have no grounding in fact.

I was writing in general terms and not meaning anyone in particular but if you want to take what I write out of context, then by all means.

"out of context" meaning "in the context of what this thread's discussing"?

[spinmastermic]

I'm not concerned with that but it is the dishonesty that gets me. It's as if some teams want to sound better than the rest, but they all use team orders no matter how much some claim they don't or won't.

What dishonesty? Ferrari were a joke after Germany last year, insisting there were no orders. They think F1 fans are idiots.

I think allowing drivers to race is healthy when you have two competitive drivers. But they gotta be responsable.

[beelsebob]

I'm not concerned with that but it is the dishonesty that gets me. It's as if some teams want to sound better than the rest, but they all use team orders no matter how much some claim they don't or won't.

What dishonesty? Ferrari were a joke after Germany last year, insisting there were no orders. They think F1 fans are idiots.

I think allowing drivers to race is healthy when you have two competitive drivers. But they gotta be responsable.

No, they thought that if they gave anyone proof that they had used team orders they would have got a much heavier punishment than the one they did get

Note – it was obvious for all to see that they did – that doesn't mean that it would have held up in a court.

[andrew]

I'm not concerned with that but it is the dishonesty that gets me. It's as if some teams want to sound better than the rest, but they all use team orders no matter how much some claim they don't or won't.

What dishonesty? Ferrari were a joke after Germany last year, insisting there were no orders. They think F1 fans are idiots.

I think allowing drivers to race is healthy when you have two competitive drivers. But they gotta be responsable.

All teams say they don't use team orders but I'll wager they will do if not by now, certainly later in the year. What Ferrari did was not new but the way they did it was extremely unprofessional. Makes the drivers look stupid as well.

I agree letting both drivers race is preferable, but if you have 2 guys in the same car who are very competitive in a race situation they will hit each other sooner or later. I guess the argument for team orders (from a teams point of view) is that it is another way of making sure both cars finish the race. Obviously the argument against is that us, as fans, want to see all drivers racing each other.

[Diesel]

I'm not concerned with that but it is the dishonesty that gets me. It's as if some teams want to sound better than the rest, but they all use team orders no matter how much some claim they don't or won't.

Ofcourse Red Bull drivers are equal right?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsp ... 730296.stm

They're better than everyone else

[andrew]

Judge by what happens on the track and not by media friendly soundbites.