Silly Season 2011/2012

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:15 am

Is Senna in the 19 car or is it Maldanado???

Ive got Senna as 18 and Maldanado as 19 on WDC points from last year.

Guess we need to see the final FIA entry list to have a propper idea.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:47 am

I have also corrected some spelling; please see bolded names

RBR:
1. Vettel
2. Webber

McLaren:
3. Button
4. Hamilton

Ferrari:
5. Alonso
6. Massa

Merc:
7. Schumacher
8. Rosberg

Lotus:
9. Räikkönen
10. Grosjean

Force India:
11. Di Resta
12. Hülkenberg

Sauber:
14. Kobayashi
15. Pérez

Torro Rosso:
16. Ricciardo
17. Vergne

Williams:
18. Maldonado
19. Senna

Caterham:
20. Kovalainen
21. Trulli

HRT:
22. De la Rosa
23. ????

Marussia:
24. Glock
25. Pic


And I can't believe that HRT hasn't updated their website since December, as they still list Ricciardo and Liuzzi as drivers. They must be soo busy at the factory to update it. :wink: No worries...
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mx_tifoso
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: North America

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:16 am

manchild wrote:Thanks WB

Mr.S wrote:Honda is a Top team. You cant pick & choose & twist facts, Honda was the 2nd fastest team in 2004. Honda has huge resources & money while Willams is essentially a beggar.

Anyways in 2006,Jenson won races,Barichello got points. Honda were a great team by mid-table standards atleast or Williams standards & got heaps of point. Jenson had pole in Australia. Jenson Button scored as many points as runner up Michael Schumacher in the last 3rd of the season. Anyways Jenson had 1 Race win,3 Podiums & 5 4th places in the 2006 season

Barichello had a podium in 2008 which was another dissapointing year after 2007.

But Honda had Money,a great manager in Brawn,huge resources,people,2 Very good drivers & a killer innovation in DD. Williams have nothing. They are basically begging for money & renting the seat in return.


How about pointing out where Honda was in 2007 and 2008?

Williams - 2010 6th of 12 teams, 2011 9th of 12 teams.

Honda - 2007 8th of 10 teams, 2008 9th of 10 teams.

Honda was never a top team. They had a promise of becoming top team after 2006 climb, but it never happened. Button's single weather-caused lucky win, equals Panis' and Ligier win in Monaco 1996. No one called Panis a fantastic driver and Ligier a top team because of it.

Renault had "killer" innovative DD for 2009 too, but FIA said no to them, yes to Brawn.

Williams currently has best packed gearbox and rear suspension, lightest gearbox, supreme aero efficiency of whole coke bottle region end because of that revolutionary gearbox they've developed. Unfortunately, sometimes being years ahead with certain element of the car, doesn't bring success if car under performs for other reasons. Ferrari had sequential paddle shifting gearbox in 1989, and yet it took them more than a decade to win title.

Sir Frank Williams is a gentleman player, a true sportsman. He isn't begging, because he was never into sport for quick cash and marketing, unlike so many contemporary teams and owners. Williams is constructing their own car, and they are going to compete in 2012, like it or not. That is how they did since day one, and when they loose ambition, they'll come up and publicly call it a day.


Why pick & choose 2007 & 2008. They had a couple of bad years but dumped the 2007 season soon & the 2008 to focus on the 2009 car. Let Williams match up to that.

BTW cut the BS that Renault were denied & Brawn were allowed by the FIA. This ........ favouritism idea is way too boring & does not interest me.

Come up with solid facts,proofs to show that FIA played favouritism & not on the basis of ridiculous rumours..................
Last edited by Giblet on Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: removed personal attacks.
Mr.S
 
Joined: 9 Apr 2011

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:35 pm

So is Trulli in for good at Caterham?
Honda!
dren
 
Joined: 3 Mar 2010

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:00 pm

Mr.S wrote:BTW cut the BS that Renault were denied & Brawn were allowed by the FIA. This ........ favouritism idea is way too boring & does not interest me.

Come up with solid facts,proofs to show that FIA played favouritism & not on the basis of ridiculous rumours..................


Google for Renault statements.

Renault presented double diffuser to FIA in October 2008, and it was judged by FIA as illegal. That is why Renault started redesigning car to work without it. Unlike Renault, Brawn was told by FIA that double diffuser is legal. When the season started, and after several races when FIA defined it as legal device, all other teams had to make swift changes, although some of them like Renault for example, had car design with double diffuser half year ago.
Last edited by manchild on Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
manchild
 
Joined: 3 Jun 2005

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:15 pm

More importantly, when the device was spotted at the first tests in January, MrM made an official statement, obviously without consulting Charlie Whiting, saying that he saw this as nothing but an innovative solution, completely legal.

I remember this very clearly as I read it in Autosport when in London for my 75th birthday on February 1st.

Xtraordinary to say the very least, it gave me the feeling that he was colluding with his old milling operator RB.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:30 pm

What were Williams and Toyota told?
Honda!
dren
 
Joined: 3 Mar 2010

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:39 pm

dren wrote:What were Williams and Toyota told?

Same thing Brawn was told, but since they didn't became dominant like Brawn did, no one paid much attention to them in the whole whole issue. They were protested against together with Brawn regarding same device, but other than that, due to their poor results, they were out of focus.
manchild
 
Joined: 3 Jun 2005

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:22 pm

Engine and general optomisation were to blame for the FW31s poor pace. They didnt optomiose the car arround the DDD, they made the car good all round and made it the 5th best over the year. Posibly the last Williams that was a building block to jump onto for the next season, whitch they just evolved and didnt add as the 2010 car was 6th best, then that evolved into last years POS.

We will see what Williams come up with this year.
ESPImperium
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2008
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:33 pm

manchild wrote:
Mr.S wrote:BTW cut the BS that Renault were denied & Brawn were allowed by the FIA. This ........ favouritism idea is way too boring & does not interest me.

Come up with solid facts,proofs to show that FIA played favouritism & not on the basis of ridiculous rumours..................


Google for Renault statements.

Renault presented double diffuser to FIA in October 2008, and it was judged by FIA as illegal. That is why Renault started redesigning car to work without it. Unlike Renault, Brawn was told by FIA that double diffuser is legal. When the season started, and after several races when FIA defined it as legal device, all other teams had to make swift changes, although some of them like Renault for example, had car design with double diffuser half year ago.


Google means S***. Give me official statements from the FIA,any team or Renault which says something similar. If you come up with such allegation,back it up or keep quiet.
Mr.S
 
Joined: 9 Apr 2011

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:38 pm

Anyways Congratulations Williams. 2 Pay Drivers. *Claps*.

You have out-done HRT & Marussia. My 2 cents Williams will be sold after a 11th finish this year.
Mr.S
 
Joined: 9 Apr 2011

Post Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:49 pm

I also remember that at the time Renault were furious because they were denied the use of DDD, but later the other 3 teams were allowed to use it. I am not sure if there was any official statement, though. Also, if you remember, Renault came up very quickly with their version floor/DDD combo. It was rumoured they were so fast because they already had the concept and only had to produce it and stick it to the car.
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:15 am

Mr.S wrote:Anyways Congratulations Williams. 2 Pay Drivers. *Claps*.

You have out-done HRT & Marussia. My 2 cents Williams will be sold after a 11th finish this year.


Williams will fall further behind this year. They will be overtaken by Lotus.
astracrazy
 
Joined: 4 Mar 2009

Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:19 am

astracrazy wrote:Williams will fall further behind this year. They will be overtaken by Lotus.


And this weekends lotto number will be....


Oh that's right you cant see the future before it happens... #-o
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos
 
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:35 am

No, but you can make a fair prediction and this is mine.
astracrazy
 
Joined: 4 Mar 2009

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