Silly Season 2011/2012

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:31 pm

No mention of whom offered the drive.

But I have to commend alguesari on his impeccable silence.
More could have been done.
David Purley
JohnsonsEvilTwin
 
Joined: 29 Jan 2010
Location: SU 419113

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:23 pm

Giblet wrote:At least DLR can develop a car and is a very quick and consistent tester. Mclaren are no dummies and they retained him forever. They are not winning any races, but Narain? I would say a waste of a seat, but the whole outfit to me is a waste of a grid slot at this point.

I typically don't say such things, but I want to see them leave and stop embarrassing themselves.


IMHO, HRT has a slow development driver without a car worth developing and a low-talent never-was with a very big bag full of rupees. This is what anti-expansionists feared would happen -- dilution of F1. This is a team we can do without, with Virgin/Marussia (?) not a whole lot better.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:49 pm

I do have one question... Dr. Marko stated that the axed-STR Drivers were 'Not Winners' suggesting they weren't Championship material.

Q. How many Drivers Championships has Mark Webber won in his 10 Year F1 career?

& yet he manages to get signed up year after year. This year he will take his total to 198 Races. Good Luck winning the Drivers Championship.
Trailer23
 
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
Location: United Arab Emirates

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:56 pm

To be fair; winner and champion are two different things. Mark isn't championship material, but he is a race winner.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:04 pm

Trailer23 wrote:I do have one question... Dr. Marko stated that the axed-STR Drivers were 'Not Winners' suggesting they weren't Championship material.

Q. How many Drivers Championships has Mark Webber won in his 10 Year F1 career?

& yet he manages to get signed up year after year. This year he will take his total to 198 Races. Good Luck winning the Drivers Championship.


Helmut Marko has made it very clear to the media that he doesn't see Mark proceeding with Red Bull for 2012. I think it's the impetus of everyone else on the team that have depended on his input in the transition between Coulthard and Vettel that have kept Mark in the seat as well as his skill on the track from 2009-2011. Y'know, impetus from the people that are actually part of the racing team.

It it were up to Helmut, he would rotate out drivers until he struck gold again with another Vettel. Of course, this would mean terrible inconsistency in terms of car development, team acclimation, and driver's experience and would never get a win in the first place, creating a vicious cycle. This is why everything Helmut says should be taken with a grain of salt...or a cube.

It is just a shame about Alguesuari and Buemi. After watching some of the 2010 grand prix, both Buemi and Jaime had some really good races with nice talent, but often times were bopped out by retirements due to other cars crashing into them. But, for Toro Rosso, apparently, the politics of the Red Bull Driver's program has to march on.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:40 am

raymondu999 wrote:To be fair; winner and champion are two different things. Mark isn't championship material, but he is a race winner.


I'd beg to differ. I think he had a solid chance in '10. Unfortunately, that'll be his only one...
"You're so angry that you throw your gloves down, and the worst part is; you have to pick them up again." - Steve Matchett

Patiently waiting...
scuderiafan
 
Joined: 6 Nov 2010
Location: United States

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:03 am

scuderiafan wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:To be fair; winner and champion are two different things. Mark isn't championship material, but he is a race winner.


I'd beg to differ. I think he had a solid chance in '10. Unfortunately, that'll be his only one...


He definitely had his chance in 2010, just a lot of factors worked against him after Hungary, namely a broken shoulder and Korea (Korea... :evil: ).

To prevent a larger Pro-Webber rant, I'll just say that he's stated that the EBD wasn't really his cup of tea (due to the tricky handling with the throttle mapping), he should be acclimated to the tyres by now, and the race starts have probably haunted him enough to do something about it. Webber 2012!
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:12 am

I have mixed feelings about Mark Webber, and they're largely the result of his comments last year when he stated, and I'm paraphrasing, that 2010 was his last chance at winning the World Championship. In an age of canned responses to questions, I find that level of honesty very refreshing. However, I also think a successful driver, delusional or not, needs to believe he can win at any time, against any odds.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:44 am

http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Algu ... 36426.html

Alguersuari will be back this season. :-k




Visca Catalunya!
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mx_tifoso
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: North America

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:57 am

mx_tifoso wrote:http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Alguersuari-They-haven-t-killed-me-I-m-21-I-ll-be-back,36426.html

Alguersuari will be back this season. :-k




Visca Catalunya!


Hrm....cryptic.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:58 am

He will get TD somewhere. He's a competent driver who really made a good advert for himself in the latter part of the season.
I've found a way of ducting exhaust right to the diffuser edge like in 2011 and created a new wheel fastener that could allow sub 2 second pitstops see them here --> My 2013 F1 Concept Project
MIKEY_!
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Location: On my horse, my horse is amazing.

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:15 am

scuderiafan wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:To be fair; winner and champion are two different things. Mark isn't championship material, but he is a race winner.


I'd beg to differ. I think he had a solid chance in '10. Unfortunately, that'll be his only one...

Based on a competitiveness point of view; not really though. Had the Red Bull been reliable for BOTH drivers rather than just one, then Vettel would have gained over him; 13 points in Bahrain (25 for win vs 12 for 4th), 26 in Melbourne (25 for win, and Mark would lose 1 point as he would move down a place) and even from the first two races alone it's 39 points. Had that played out as such, Mark shouldn't nearly have been getting close/ahead in the points for the rest of the season. With a car with a pace advantage, near-bulletproof reliability, and a teammate whose car couldn't keep itself together, the title in 2010 should have been his.
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:25 am

Raymond,

In a way, what you're talking about is probably why Mark was so hard on himself about 2010. If anyone knew, firsthand, how good Vettel can be and could have been, it would be Mark. And to have the championship run away from him in the end would bring down anyone who saw it as THE golden moment.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:35 am

I think somehow deep within him he is kind of resigned to being slower than Vettel; though Mark being Mark he would never admit that openly. He might not even be doing it consciously; but rather at a subconscious level.

You have to feel for Mark though. The way I view Mark is that had it been a lesser driver in the number 5 Red Bull in 2010; Mark would probably have won the title. Probably a large chunk of that would be the car making the difference, but he would have won the title.

I think when compared against the "industrial average" he is a fantastic driver. Compared against those who will win races, but not titles (the DCs... the Massas, etc) and as such those who given a dominant car would win the title, he probably would be somewhere near the mid-top level of that group. But I think the comparison is skewed by Seb. Seb is probably 1 of the top 3 or 4 drivers of this current F1 era, and it's a tough act to follow that kind of skill. (to analogize - Mark is a straight A student in class. Most of the grid probably would only match him on their best days when they're wearing their lucky underwear. But if you're comparing that to an A+ student then that makes him look bad in comparison
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Tue Feb 07, 2012 5:52 am

mx_tifoso wrote:http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/Alguersuari-They-haven-t-killed-me-I-m-21-I-ll-be-back,36426.html

Alguersuari will be back this season. :-k

I sincerely hope so. I have nothing but contempt for the way drivers are handled at STR and in the Red Bull Young Driver Program, and I want to see young Alguersuari collect his just dessert for being a very capable F1 driver.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

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