Mike Coughlan joins Williams after Stepneygate sentence

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

In that case I will deduce a few things. The FIA lacked bollocks to make an example of Coughlan.
And Coughlan has the temerity to waltz back in to F1 and show his face like nothing happened.

He has been judged and sentenced, and paid his dues.
You have absolutely no right to blame him for trying to get on with his professional life.

Your grievance is with the FIA's judiciary, not with the man.

Of course fil, Coughlan is beyond reproach having served his time. He now has no case to answer and should get on with his professional life inside the very small gold fish bowl that is F1. <<< sarcasm

Mr Coughlan can get on with his proffesional life outside of F1 quite nicely thank you. And before you say it's his life, wh did he do what he did? The whole sport was tarnished because of him and Stepney. I will take back everything if it is proved he was the fall guy for some dastardly inner dealings, of which there could be some mileage.
But as it stands, Mr Coughlan is not a fit and proper person to be associated with F1 IMO.
Excuse the soapbox operatics, it just doesn't sit kindly with me.

[Fil]

I was very disappointed to notice the "<<< sarcasm".

For a moment there I thought we had actually progressed beyond sentencing a now free man, for life.

Oh well.


Sentences are constantly being adjusted based on a society's values. The F1 society has gotten over his indiscretions & accepted the sentence is over. That's all that counts in this instance.

The fact that you will not accept the length of a sentence is fine, but you need to realise we all are outsiders passing judgment on something we have less information on than the society that has come to accept it.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Fil

If that fills your criteria, and you are satisfied with it then "fair dinkum".

In my field if you get done for proven gross misconduct, sayonara, arrivederci, see ya, ta ta. Thats the entire industry...for good.
In Medicine its the same.
Armed defence the same again. Probably a few other industries I may have missed.

My issue is both with the FIA and Coughlan. It sets no precedent at all, and can actually open the floodgates to this sort of thing happening once more. 3 years for stealing the most holier than though info of Ferrari's 250 million dollar invesment is small change.
People with loose morals can easily take that hit for a few quid.

With the return of Coughlan, this sort of thing will happen again 100% guaranteed.

[Hangaku]

Fil

If that fills your criteria, and you are satisfied with it then "fair dinkum".

In my field if you get done for proven gross misconduct, sayonara, arrivederci, see ya, ta ta. Thats the entire industry...for good.
In Medicine its the same.
Armed defence the same again. Probably a few other industries I may have missed.

But funilly enough, not government

Ahhh, where would F1 be without scandal? In a much more boring place, that's for sure.

[Coefficient]

"Tomlinson and Michaels wouldn´t those two make a perfect fit for Virgin?..just an idea...[/quote]


Yes, I can see that working actually. Virgin do seem to like crap aero!

[Steven]

First off, can we cut the whining on Coughlan's sentence being correct or not please? The sentence is there, he served it and he is allowed back. End of story, learn to live with it!

"Tomlinson and Michaels wouldn´t those two make a perfect fit for Virgin?..just an idea...
Yes, I can see that working actually. Virgin do seem to like crap aero!

Please don't make it look like these men are incapable. F1 has a bunch of the best engineers in the world, and it is not because they struggle to bring the team back on top that they are bad. It is not because Newey built some crappy and fragile cars that he's a bad designer, or is he?

[Fil]

What is Coughlan's track record performance-wise?

Obviously he was highly regarded to end up in a senior McLaren position. What had him reach that?


And is a few years out of the competition, for a designer, like it is for a driver? Does it take time for them to get back up to speed?

[Coefficient]

If you wanted a way to drain the last few dregs of sympathy anyone may have had for Williams F1 and their travails, this stunt sounds just about custom built.

It's not about 'he's done his time', it's about character, integrity and honesty, and who you as a team choose to associate with, and how you look to carry yourself.
Yes, teams can choose to employ guys like Coughlan, or Symonds, or Briatore, but they shouldn't kid themselves, shouldn't be under any illusions, that we'll all hold our noses and try to look the other way while they do it.

It really has desperation written all over it. Was this guy the best they could get, the best they could afford, was this guy the best that wanted to sign-up to a faded team in slow but inexorable decline ... tragically, I think it probably might have been.

The moral high horse of some people is sickening. Society as voted for by the public believes in the rehabilitation of criminals/prisoners, this even includes rapists and murderers. Are you telling me that in the fantasy world of Formula One, Coughlan's crimes are more significant and as such unforgiveable? Nonesense!!

What is the point of taking your punishment on the chin if you can't live in the hope and expectation of being redeemed by it? Bear in mind that there was no evidence revealed in the FIA investigation that any technology of Ferrari origin found its way onto a Mclaren. Coughlan's error of judgement should be put to rest now, he's done his time, end of. The whole Spygate thing was a sham anyway!! Article 151c was broken by Mclaren and Ferrari in equal measure!! The teams are responsible for the actions of their staff and answerable for them. Stepney instigated the whole episode yet Ferrari got off scott-free.

He's done his time, taken some time out to do a bit for queen and country and laid low for a few years. Let it go.

[Steven]

What is Coughlan's track record performance-wise?

Obviously he was highly regarded to end up in a senior McLaren position. What had him reach that?

And is a few years out of the competition, for a designer, like it is for a driver? Does it take time for them to get back up to speed?

Coughlan was responsible for an impressive twin keel in F1, the Arrows A23. It featured keels extending down to the reference plane. McLaren supposedly hired him for his knowledge on that, as McLaren later popped up with a twin keel desing as well.

[Coefficient]

First off, can we cut the whining on Coughlan's sentence being correct or not please? The sentence is there, he served it and he is allowed back. End of story, learn to live with it!

"Tomlinson and Michaels wouldn´t those two make a perfect fit for Virgin?..just an idea...

Yes, I can see that working actually. Virgin do seem to like crap aero!

Please don't make it look like these men are incapable. F1 has a bunch of the best engineers in the world, and it is not because they struggle to bring the team back on top that they are bad. It is not because Newey built some crappy and fragile cars that he's a bad designer, or is he?[/quote]

Yeah sorry! I was just being deliberately inflamatory. I didn't mean it.

[Coefficient]

What is Coughlan's track record performance-wise?

Obviously he was highly regarded to end up in a senior McLaren position. What had him reach that?

And is a few years out of the competition, for a designer, like it is for a driver? Does it take time for them to get back up to speed?

Coughlan was responsible for an impressive twin keel in F1, the Arrows A23. It featured keels extending down to the reference plane. McLaren supposedly hired him for his knowledge on that, as McLaren later popped up with a twin keel desing as well.

I thought Sergio Rinland did that?

[Steven]

What is Coughlan's track record performance-wise?

Obviously he was highly regarded to end up in a senior McLaren position. What had him reach that?

And is a few years out of the competition, for a designer, like it is for a driver? Does it take time for them to get back up to speed?

Coughlan was responsible for an impressive twin keel in F1, the Arrows A23. It featured keels extending down to the reference plane. McLaren supposedly hired him for his knowledge on that, as McLaren later popped up with a twin keel desing as well.

I thought Sergio Rinland did that?

Coughlan was Technical director, Rinland the chief designer. Joint effort then I guess, but still Coughlan's final decision at that time.
http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/852

[gridwalker]

What is Coughlan's track record performance-wise?

Obviously he was highly regarded to end up in a senior McLaren position. What had him reach that?

And is a few years out of the competition, for a designer, like it is for a driver? Does it take time for them to get back up to speed?

Coughlan was responsible for an impressive twin keel in F1, the Arrows A23. It featured keels extending down to the reference plane. McLaren supposedly hired him for his knowledge on that, as McLaren later popped up with a twin keel desing as well.

Now THAT is interesting (and much more like the reason I started visiting this forum) ... I've just looked up the A23 and investigated the twin keel, which is a feature of the car that I never really appreciated at the time (although it was certainly one of my favourites of that generation).

Which McLaren model are you referring to? I would like to take a look at that but don't really have the time to look it up without a model number.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Regardless of what "moral highgrounds" I or others may have taken the Decision to allow him back so soon is the travesty.

As I said, and a point which has amusingly remained unanswered even buy our own esteemed mod, The punishment meted out serves as a reason to cheat now.
Iam all for Rehabilition, but 3 years for effectively knicking 250 millions worth of IP is so far removed from the real world its laughable.
Had it been Gold Bouillion or Diamonds, the man would have been locked away for 25 years.

What I get from alot of you, is that yea his an engineer(one of us), he did a small transgression( ) and he wont do it again because he is sorry and served 40 months outside of F1.

I see we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this. And to our esteemed mod, "whining" over ethics in my sport is quite substantial to me. This thread is devoted to the man. I disagree with him coming back and I'm using the correct thread to say as much.
I'm not militant over it, but Iam surprised by the lacksadaisical attitude some have taken over somthing that threatened the fabric of the sport.

Sorry to be passionate over F1 and its integrity, I see that sadly I'm in a minority.

[Giblet]

The punishment meted out serves as a reason to cheat now

(monocle) I have to respectfully disagree good sir. (/monocle)

The fact that your team will get a minimum $100,000,000 fine is quite a decent deterrent don't you think? If another team cheats in an even similar vein and they are not Mclaren or Red Bull, they will be forced to fold.

As sure as Williams hired him, be sure there are many teams who would never hire him on principle. I would imagine he would have received some very curt P.F.O.'s from other teams he's contacted. His life hasn't been roses I am sure. Some people wouldn't be able to deal with that level of public shaming, or the huge personal and professional mountain he has to climb in the sport.

What if Williams turns out a corker next year in the same style as Red Bull, with a car that seems to be bending the rules? The sound of 'cheater!' will be twice as loud.