The Porsche 956/962 thread

[wesley123]

xpensive's 917 thread brought me on an idea. Why not a thread about the 956 and 962? Both were dominant in what they did over an extended period of time.

For me, the Porsche 956/962 is the all-time greatest. It won the 24h of Le Mans on it's first outing in 1982 and dominated it until 1987. It even continued on to win the 1994 race. I don't think any car has had such an extensive racing history.

What made it even greater was that teams would modify their 956/962's. This got to small changes to complete revamps of the original design. They all had a similar goal; increase front downforce and improve the rigidity of the monocoque. The original design wasn't very stiff, and quality would differ based on build date(Porsche would do a batch, and those that waited the longest before curing, degraded the quickest.). Also it's Flat 6 engine proved to be a disadvantage because it limited tunnel size. It's amazing that with all of that it still continued to win races all over the globe.

Out of all the 956/962's that raced, the Busby Porsche has got to be my favorite. Clearly inspired by the then dominant Nissan ZX-T

[Blanchimont]

Although i've never seen this car racing live, i think i'm in love with it. To me it represents what a race car should look and sound like. The bodywork is just fine for me, simple, elegant and smooth curves.

A great video about the 962 and Norbert Singer:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZxC-knQmkM[/youtube]


from: http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/stuv/ ... corer.html

And tunnels, every race should have such a booty...

from: http://pilotesanciens.blogspot.de/2013/ ... inger.html

[MadMatt]

Indeed, for me the 956 (and 956K) is my favourite race car of all time. I am such a big fan that I do not only have quite a few VHS and DVDs of sportscar racing in the 1980s, but also books, die cast items, but also one of my favourite part, an original (not a replica) poster of the 1983 Nürburgring 1000km which represents for me the pinnacle of sportscar racing. Sorry to get a bit personal here but finally a discussion about something that I really like







I have a lot more VHS but they are in plastic boxes, while the books are all mixed up with WWII books which have nothing to do here but I had to share a bit my collection

Speaking about the car in itself (the 956), the Lancia LC2 was generally a faster car but Porsche, thanks to their better fuel consumption management (Motronic) managed to dominate. A funny thing is how a private team (New-Man team) won LeMans 2 times in a row against all factory cars. Ah those times...

As wesley said also, the number of modified versions was just incredible. Going from modified engines to monocoque fabrication, front wing setups, fuel management, etc., there was a large variety of cars.

[lpatterson]

If you have not come across this thread over on Pelican Parts forum. Well worth a look, some fantastic pictures.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche- ... -here.html

[Blanchimont]

Regarding fuel consumption, the book "Porsche 956/962 - the enduring champions" by Peter Morgan has an interesting graph on page 145. The handdrawn graph shows the fuel consumption for each stint and the laptime for the 1986 Le Mans race.

The laptimes for the first half of the race on average are ~3:31 min and the average fuel consumption 48l/100km or 6,5l/lap. The numbers for the total race are between 53,5 and 43,5 l/100km.

How does this compare with today's regulations? The Porsche car in the 6MJ petrol class can use 139,5 MJ of petrol per lap, that's about 4,5l/lap. The 0MJ class is allowed to consume a bit more, 157,2 MJ or 5,1l per lap.

The circuit of course looked a bit different back then without the chicanes, but the fuel consumption of the old Porsche for me is remarkable. Almost 30 years ago...

[MadMatt]

It is indeed very good. But as you said the track was different, and it is known that better fuel consumption is achieved on full throttle, and the old LeMans had A LOT of 100% WOT sections. Still, it is very impressive for the 1980s.

As I have the book as well, I took the liberty to take a picture of that page (open in new window for full size):

[Blanchimont]

Yep, that's the graph i meant. Good to see from such a simple drawing how the lap times evolve over the race. Pushing at the start and for the first half, then going easy after the safety car period to bring the car home.

Matt, what other books could you recommend about the Porsche 956/962 or IMSA cars? The Peter Morgan book is one of two i have bought for this topic, the other one is: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... nescorn-20

[marcush.]

jesus pareja was realy lucky when hitting a manhole cover (!) in Montreal ...frightning ..The car in front of Pareja had thrown up the cover ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcGuAgySDI

[MadMatt]

Yep, that's the graph i meant. Good to see from such a simple drawing how the lap times evolve over the race. Pushing at the start and for the first half, then going easy after the safety car period to bring the car home.

Matt, what other books could you recommend about the Porsche 956/962 or IMSA cars? The Peter Morgan book is one of two i have bought for this topic, the other one is: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... nescorn-20

Its hard to find good books to be fair. It all depends on what you are looking for (table book, technical stuff, etc).

Regarding the 956 I just have the Porsche 956/962 book and another one that I forgot the name (and cannot find it at the moment), but I have many magazines with the car featured (stories, test drives, etc). I do not even want to buy more books because I know already more than I want to know. I mean it will be difficult to read/see new things

[MadMatt]

Thought I would share this screen shot from a review of the 1985 World Endurance Championship:



Porsche 956 ECU at Monza in 1985!

The magic behind the 956s fuel management! I would guess the hose inside the ECU is connected on the other side to the MAP sensor.

[MadMatt]

Before we start exploring the different versions of the 956/962 (Interserie, group C, IMSA, WSPC, etc.) let's not forget they even made a road going version of it (the 962). Well Dauer did:



There is one in the city where I live but haven't seen it myself. Have seen a Porsche 956L with Boss colours tho. The same as this one:



Very impressive to see one on the road. Very very low!

[MadMatt]

Because I am not gonna let this thread (and the 917 one) die, here are some numbers for you tech peps.

In a Bernoulli mag' that I've got, they say that it was calculated the 956 (whose weight was 800Kg) generated 8500N of downforce when clocked at 321.4km/h at LeMans (therefore in L version). This number was achieved at 180km/h with the K version. It was also calculated that this number was 3 times the one achieved on the 917 (version unknown).

Looking at the 917 thread here: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 2&start=30

We have numbers at the bottom from mulsannecorner. 521lbs which is 2318N, which is 3.5 times less than the 956, so the numbers are close enough to make sense.

[MadMatt]

The 1987 Norisring 1000km race where Porsche announced their immediate retirement.



Their last race was an absolute disaster with punctures and engine problems. A shame

[wesley123]

It's amazing to see that such a large part of the field where Porsche's. 10 of the 13 cars in the image are Porsche 962/956's

What also is amazing to see is that according to windtunnel results the final iteration, '93 Joest Porsche, made 5584 lbs. @ 200 mph of downforce, which, according to an online conversion, amounts to 24839N of downforce. I can hardly imagine that it made that much more downforce compared to the 956LH

[MadMatt]

Yes this was a sort of transition year before Mercedes, Nissan, and others came in.

Do you have a source for your number? It sounds unbelieveable. Or maybe that is (more probably) in high-downforce setup with a top speed of 250km/h. I am a bit sceptical.



This is the car in question (I believe).