VW to buy Ferrari?

[autogyro]

No they wont. Such engines will be illegal by then.
[...]

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

[...]

No, ICs won't be banned. Electrics are not the only way approved from the Lord (or the Green Lords) for us to use. When such theme arises and people start talking they realize electricity is more of an issue than a complete solution. This is a wet dream of yours and the problems you just said are the confirmation of that. The type of fuel has EVERYTHING to do with the problem, as burning coal leaves us better just burning petrol than to use several kilowatts to charge an electric car. The ancient liquid fuel distribution system is already in place and won't use huge amounts of resources to take place like a complete shift to electrics. The battery issues are a HUGE issue that is not solved even for low-consumption applications like a laptop and their production so far is said by many ecologists to be way worse then the actual use of an IC car during years.

Most Ferraris sold are V8s, not the V12s that perform less and emit twice of them. And you know you are lying about their performance and emissions, because the electric Lotus is not a match at all for a 458 or even a 430 and when on full gas will run out of battery in 15 minutes. So, for a 4 hour track day I wonder how much the Lotus will emit more than the Ferrari to be charged, not to mention how much more its batteries took to produce. And it doesn't make that sound only good things have. If it was not a Lotus you could say it has the silence of hate instead, especially if designed by a doom seller like you.

All that means that with CURRENT technology you are right. Electrics are being used by people more concerned with image than actual facts. In the FUTURE, with the energy generation becoming clean, things will change accordingly with the IC and electric propulsion used as they better fit. Car makers have all electric projects for decades and are ready right now for it waiting. And this change is dependent on governments and NOT on the car makers. But that is a very hard issue since people like you take the problem away from what it actually is.

[...]

[ecapox]

Frustration will not change the future.
Ferrari has got to change its ideas radicaly and very fast if it wishes a place there.
If it does not VW and other wait with the axe.

You really think that VW or someone else, other than Fiat, is going to buy Ferrari? You really think that they need to change their ideas radically?

Italians would rather sell the leaning tower of pisa before they let anyone buy Ferrari.

[autogyro]

Agenda is Incorrect, I see you are fairly new to the forum. Welcome, and keep the posts coming. Do remember, though, that many members are not open to meaningful discussion, and that facts mean little to such people. To them, facts mean nothing when compared to their own narrow agenda.

Have you got any donskar? Facts that is, on the suggested Ferrari take overs?

[alelanza]

Agenda is Incorrect, I see you are fairly new to the forum. Welcome, and keep the posts coming. Do remember, though, that many members are not open to meaningful discussion, and that facts mean little to such people. To them, facts mean nothing when compared to their own narrow agenda.

Thanks. And unfortunately you are right, that's why I guess every topic with some participations will end up completely out of their course and into the same thing no matter how hard other posts might try to bring it back and make useful discussion. The question is how much longer this is going to continue and how much longer the forum will give new chances that are being thrown away.

Welcome as well, do keep posting. Unfortunately like every other forum there's a few trolls around, but as in other places it's as easy as ignoring them. Very soon you'll just skip ahead to the next post when you see the word autogyro anywhere in a thread

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Gracias, alelanza. It's hard to ignore things like that but in the view of how this is going both on user and mod sides maybe that's the best to do sometimes indeed.

Anyway, anyone knows anything further about the topic subject?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So to surmise then,

It was a journo attempting to put 2 and 2 together and getting 10.
The story basically revolves around VW being plenty cash rich, and FIAT needing some liquidity to help with the Chrysler merger/takeover.

Ferrari being a blue chip brand with very healthy profits would be deemed an easy target. But the complexities of the deal would be so great that just scratching the surface reveals alot of insurmountable problems.

The first being it makes FIAT money. How much FIAT gets out of it is unsubstantiated thus far, but Im sure a resourceful poster with the right searching skills could get figures.
Secondly the Ferrari Family hold veto rights to any sale, including a small stake in Ferrari and they would veto a German led Veedub takeover, of that im pretty sure.
Thirdly FIAT needs Ferrari as tech leader. Alot of Maserati requires Ferrari know-how. How much else they contribute within the group isn't verifiable, but it is a two way trade that works effectively for both companies.
Finally, you have Italian Politicians. Anyone ever been to Italy will tell you there are three things you dont mess with, the first being their mama's the second is their pasta and third Ferrari.
Will the Italians lay by idly as the Germans takeover their "identity"?
Not on your life, there would be riots all over Italy before that happened.

Oh and their is the small matter of Lamborghini and Bugatti being stable mates too. How uneasy will that be....

[donskar]

So to surmise then,

It was a journo attempting to put 2 and 2 together and getting 10.
The story basically revolves around VW being plenty cash rich, and FIAT needing some liquidity to help with the Chrysler merger/takeover.

Ferrari being a blue chip brand with very healthy profits would be deemed an easy target. But the complexities of the deal would be so great that just scratching the surface reveals alot of insurmountable problems.

The first being it makes FIAT money. How much FIAT gets out of it is unsubstantiated thus far, but Im sure a resourceful poster with the right searching skills could get figures.

Secondly the Ferrari Family hold veto rights to any sale, including a small stake in Ferrari and they would veto a German led Veedub takeover, of that im pretty sure.

Thirdly FIAT needs Ferrari as tech leader. Alot of Maserati requires Ferrari know-how. How much else they contribute within the group isn't verifiable, but it is a two way trade that works effectively for both companies.

Finally, you have Italian Politicians. Anyone ever been to Italy will tell you there are three things you dont mess with, the first being their mama's the second is their pasta and third Ferrari.
Will the Italians lay by idly as the Germans takeover their "identity"?
Not on your life, there would be riots all over Italy before that happened.

Oh and their is the small matter of Lamborghini and Bugatti being stable mates too. How uneasy will that be....

Excellent post, JET. I have taken the liberty to highlight your main points (IMHO). I'm half-Italian (mother) and I think you correctly summarize Ferrari's place in the Italian culture. Smarter people than me have identified Italy's main export as "style" -- furniture, clothing, jewelry, etc. . . . and cars. Bigots and very intelligent people can hate Ferrari the car, the man, the racing team, and the technology, but itis hard to dispute Ferrari's importance to Italy's culture and economy.

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

JET's and donskar's points are right. Sometimes people that don't even know the specs of any Ferrari outside and manly inside Italy have deep admiration for it. It's recognized by so many, or most, as the car brand. A bit like Coca Cola were you have so much recognition and appreciation that the brand is worth more than the actual business and that image brings profit and pride. Actually, Ferrari has this benefit with almost none of the rejection Coca Cola receives for being American.

Though it's true that the people and the governments not always walk hand in hand this is a very big deal in Italy and Ferrari, with Fiat, receive great support from the Italian government. And saying there is almost completely disconnection from government and people in most situations is a very exaggerated statement, revealing some ideology together with the American Dream statement. If you really worked for Ferrari, autogyro, you will know Italy and most of Europe are very far from that model. In fact I guess not even the USA follows it any more, things have changed a lot since the new century.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thats just the the thing gyro, A journo dreamed this up.

On another matter with some of the same overtones(substantiated) it is now official that AMG and Ducati have established a mutual partnership in sporting events.
Ducati will carry AMG sponsorship and Ducati will provide motorcycles for DTM/F1 events...(lord knows why or who will use them )

I will be making a thread shortly, as I think this could lead to Rossi at Mercedes GP should some rumours be believed

[donskar]

Well, at least M-B and Ducati share a common heritage in desmo engines . . .

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Well, at least M-B and Ducati share a common heritage in desmo engines . . .

Indeed Donskar.

I missed it! But thanks for the timely reminder

[Agenda_Is_Incorrect]

Well, at least M-B and Ducati share a common heritage in desmo engines . . .

Could you say more about it in the JET's topic?

[autogyro]

I was correct then Montezemolo is for the chop.
Does this mean Fiat is ready to sell Ferrari?
Or is it to make room for Briatorre?
My my the workings of the mafioso.

[segedunum]

Amusing to see this being batted away with the same kind of denial of the problems still faced by automotive manufacturers. Ferrari doesn't make Fiat enough money in order to keep them or their ill-advised venture with Chrysler going and when needs must it will be sold regardless of Itlian sentimentality or culture, which has bugger all to do with anything.

Italy is B-R-O-K-E - which is probably why Montezemolo sees an opportunity in politics as people like Gerry Adams do in Ireland. You can smell problems.