Marussia MR01 Cosworth

[richard_leeds]

Two months on and Marussia really admit to a weak gearbox casing for Glock being the reason for his recent trouble. If they need two months to fathom what action to take when experiecing handling trouble on only one car...what are they going to do about really complicated riddles????

These halfbaked activities really make you think :I could do this.Sure they know a bunch of "important" things ..but you don´t need a race strategist to decide to change a suspect gearbox ....if you happen to have a spare...But then if you can´t afford a gearbox how can you pay 3 or 4 mill€ to your driver.. there are some around who would pay for a drive no?
throwing a way three (?) races for glock with this farce is not the sort of process help one would expect from Macs...

[ESPImperium]

Whitch leads me to think why arnt they ditching that X-Track one for a McLaren one thats matched to the Cosworth engine???

If they are paying McLaren the rumored €6m a year for their technichal tie in, why not pay them an extra €4m for a gearbox supply. We know that this years Williams gearbox is powering two different engines, why arnt Marussia throwing money at McLaren to get a tried and tested bit of kit in the McLaren Applied Technologies gearbox?

It would mean that the gearbox supply would mean they wouldnt have to worry about operating the gearbox supply.

Force India threw in the towel in 2008 for their Gearbox department and got the MAT gearbox for their new Mercedes engine. And if a experienced and established team like Force India have had problems, id expect a small team like Marussia to have more than just a few niggles. Even Sauber when BMW left decided to outsource to Ferrari for their gearbox as a gearbox department would be too costly and wasteful on resources.

I can see a time coming in F1 where any new entry will have to buy a engine supply from an established team for 3 years in order for them to get the basics right first, whitch is getting their philosiphy up to speed and on the pace then working on relyability of the overall package. HRT decided after a year the X-Track system wasnt working and went with Williams Grand Prix Engineering, Lotus Racing left Cosworth and X-Trac in a one-er and went for the Renault engine and the Red Bull 2009 gearbox as it was a proven package.

Gearbox departments are a brain drain on resources, whitch small teams need resources deployed better in other areas.

It shows that Marussia, even though they have improved this year to lasts performance, they still are lacking in many more areas, such as quality decision making. This is one area they should look at and improve, if they already havnt had a meeting to resolve and clarify this issue.

Disapointed, yes; surprised, not really. Id expect a 5 place drop in Canada for a new gearbox for Timo now, unless they take that gearbox for this race and write it off to experience. However with the random event occurance likleyhood in Canada being high, can they afford a 5 place drop, i think they can take the gamble.

[marcush.]

not sure whose brainchild the current case is -it is new -as Marussia now has switched to pullrod as well-making the field 100% pullrod at the rear....
internals seem to be xtrac still..but i think that in itself is not unusual for a team to rely on gearbox specialists expertise when it comes to gears ,forks and dogrings ?

[ESPImperium]

My point exactly, too much happening at the same time at the rear of that car.

Pull rod rear end with X-Trac running a better and new hydrolic system for the gearbox with almost completely new internals and a new gear case. Last year it was the most relyable part of the car, even if it lost them a couple of thenths of a sescond a lap due to being based on 2007-2008 tech from the Toyota/Williams/Xtrac colaberation that Totota and Williams needed then to make the Toyota power unit work properly as it was breaking gearboxes almost at will then.

This 2012 Marussia designed and X-Trac internals thats being run by McLaren rear end just seems to have too many new ideas all at once. Id have prefered Marussia to have used last years gearbox to give them less to worry about in the long term this season, or a current or a 2011 (heck even an 2010) MAT gearbox that is proven and tested so the team can worry less about the gearbox breaking and more about dialing in a better mechanichal setting that will get the Pirellis working to a better level that will see more time gain over a lap than a gearbox that looks as if it could be slightly troublesome over the season so far.

[Petroltorque]

I was under the impression that Marussia simply bought a gearbox from MAT. But now having thought about it it makes sense. I'm guessing that their still using the same internals and controls systems to last year's transmission and have simply developped a new casing with differing suspension mounting points. That still allows them more lexibilty to tune their suspension geo to their chassis. The solution adopted by Caterham and HRT mean they are forced to run a rear suspension tha's not optimised for their chassis.
Personally I still feel that Marussia have a great chance of beating Caterham this year. A 5 place grid penalty is no great handicap around Montreal with its overtaking opportunities.

[marcush.]

my point was ,from a strategy point of view Marussia ,HRT or Caterham thereis none .You are last or near the end of the field ,so what?
You could try to redirect your recources to get more out of certasin events-monaco ,Spa ,Monza as potential canddates or you could consequently alway ssetup the car for rain and bad weather conditions to really blitz the field when these things happen ..and they do happen.
Most of the time it will not pay off but who cares? last by 2 laps or 2 laps and 50 seconds does not make a reall difference. But making an impression and score a top position when everyone else ison the wrong setup would be a masterstroke and worth millions of €.
It simply does not make any sense to look at the front runners when you are as far back as Marussia or HRT are .You need a completely different approach and there are very real opportunities .See Midland Spyker /Winkelhock at the Nurburgring a few years ago.

[wrcsti]

my point was ,from a strategy point of view Marussia ,HRT or Caterham thereis none .You are last or near the end of the field ,so what?
You could try to redirect your recources to get more out of certasin events-monaco ,Spa ,Monza as potential canddates or you could consequently alway ssetup the car for rain and bad weather conditions to really blitz the field when these things happen ..and they do happen.
Most of the time it will not pay off but who cares? last by 2 laps or 2 laps and 50 seconds does not make a reall difference. But making an impression and score a top position when everyone else ison the wrong setup would be a masterstroke and worth millions of €.
It simply does not make any sense to look at the front runners when you are as far back as Marussia or HRT are .You need a completely different approach and there are very real opportunities .See Midland Spyker /Winkelhock at the Nurburgring a few years ago.

i believe spyker used to do this often. they always did well in the rain and even lead a gp for over 50% of the race for starting on wets.

[marcush.]

a top team cannot afford this but heck what has Marrussia to lose ? You need a bit of lateral thinking and as far as i can see with brilliant pitstops or perfectly executed conservative startegy there is zero gain globally for them ..so why bother?
the objective is to maximise the potential of your outfit over a year and in terms of aiming forward in the hirarchy not to find a tenth or two ...when languishing 3 seconds adrift from a competitive time.
According to their own (!) assessment -their main lack of performance is simply aero ,which translates -according to them to a need of more funds - so what can you do? -You need to score points or you need to make yourself an attractive proposition for people with money to spend. You could either find a driver with lots of -Perez ,Maldonato etc - or you try and find a clever startegy to draw a lucky points score lifting you ahead of those you would have to fight under "normal "circumstances...
A guy like Glock sure would support this approach -He does not have to prove anything really .so why not put him on weird strategies and make the most of it?

[ESPImperium]

Id be doing it al the time, whenever there was a slight chance of a wet start, pull the cars out or Parc Ferme, set up change for the wet and go forth and try and do well, and stay out of trouble.

Spyker always pulled out their lowest car for this strategy, i have no idea why the 3 smaller teams dont do that at the moment.

In the wet the need for downforce is negated as a more pliable mechanichal set up will always be best as if you raise the car up by 3 or 4mm you will clear the standing water, and if you go for more dirty downforce, you can hammer your tires and get them up to temp quicker. In the wet id do anything to try and get a set up that was easier to drive the car than a car that could go arround corners screaming.

If it was a race where it was to rain throughout it would be a good strategy. As if you were 50 seconds ahead with 10 laps to go and the next guy was arround 5 to 6 seconds a lap faster than you, you may not get a win, but as Sauber told at Malasya, 18 points in P2 is just as good, and for the smaller teams, even the 2 points for P9 would be as good as a win for them.

[marcush.]

so dumb backmarkers ,or do we miss something really important here?

Willis said last year Front wing development is all but impossible with a pure CFD approach and this is one area you can only tackle with a proper windtunnel programme....but how much is in front wing development?
Have these guys not found out about laser 3d trackers to just scan a front runners teams geometries as a starting point?that should get you close to 100% of what is achievable (apart from flex used for performance)

[Owen.C93]

Canada wing.

[TzeiTzei]

Well the low downforce package was a complete disaster. And in the recent races HRT have caught or even passed them on pace. Marussia are apparently bringing new rear wing, exhaust, floor and sidepods to Silverstone. It's the first proper upgrade from the wind tunnel program. Interesting to see how much pace they can find.

[Owen.C93]

You can see a new exhaust system from the unfortunate straight line test at duxford.

[Crucial_Xtreme]

You can see a new exhaust system from the unfortunate straight line test at duxford.

I can't make out if it's more McLaren style or Sauber/RB style. Even on a rMBP.

Maybe it's just my old eyes. But it sort of looks like a mix between the two no?

[Owen.C93]

You can see a new exhaust system from the unfortunate straight line test at duxford.

I can't make out if it's more McLaren style or Sauber/RB style. Even on a rMBP.

Maybe it's just my old eyes. But it sort of looks like a mix between the two no?

I'd define the McLaren style exhaust as a pod that sticks out from the sidepod with air flow underneath. This is more integrated into the sidepod with a bit of a ramp so more Sauber like rather than McLaren. Sounds like they really need a decent step forward.