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A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:55 am

Crucial_Xtreme wrote:Indeed. Not usually seen from McLaren.


[img]http://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/gallery/pictures/2012/f1/gp-bahrain-21apr/459.jpg[img]


Isn't it sort of BS that these teams are still joining their gills with a tiny slot to make it "one opening"? Surely this could just be agreed to be nonsensical since everyone is doing it?
Last edited by Richard on Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed image quoted from previous post
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forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:58 am

forty-two wrote:
Owen.C93 wrote:I really want to know what that bump is on the beam wing. McLaren ran a big cover on it over winter and now it looks like there's still something under a bump on the beam wing. There's plenty of places to put things on the car so I'm not sure why they'd put it on an important aero part.

Unless it's just one of those reflections and I'm too tired to understand what's going on anymore.


Not entirely sure what you mean. Are we talking about in the middle of the beamwing, or halfway along each half?

On the left hand side of the beam wing as if you were the driver.
Owen.C93
 
Joined: 24 Jul 2010

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:02 am

Owen.C93 wrote:I really want to know what that bump is on the beam wing. McLaren ran a big cover on it over winter and now it looks like there's still something under a bump on the beam wing. There's plenty of places to put things on the car so I'm not sure why they'd put it on an important aero part.

Unless it's just one of those reflections and I'm too tired to understand what's going on anymore.


I know last week Sky said RB had put the DRS hydraulic "stuff"(??) into their beam wing & that the reasonsing behind it of course was for CoG gains. But it definitely looks like something is under it.


To the beam wing, I wonder what gains are had from having gaps from the crash structure to bottom of beam wing, then the slot in the beam wing(bottom of monkey seat)and how does that air play together. McLaren's monkey seat & beam wing a different than other teams, and just seems a little more complex to me.


Edit: @Owen I thought you meant the middle of the beam wing. It is an interesting bump/hump
Last edited by Crucial_Xtreme on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
Crucial_Xtreme
 
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
Location: Charlotte

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:05 am

Owen.C93 wrote:
forty-two wrote:
Owen.C93 wrote:I really want to know what that bump is on the beam wing. McLaren ran a big cover on it over winter and now it looks like there's still something under a bump on the beam wing. There's plenty of places to put things on the car so I'm not sure why they'd put it on an important aero part.

Unless it's just one of those reflections and I'm too tired to understand what's going on anymore.


Not entirely sure what you mean. Are we talking about in the middle of the beamwing, or halfway along each half?

On the left hand side of the beam wing as if you were the driver.


Could it be as simple as a slot, albeit warped, to make the beamwing in that section effectively a two element wing?
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:23 am

forty-two wrote:Isn't it sort of BS that these teams are still joining their gills with a tiny slot to make it "one opening"? Surely this could just be agreed to be nonsensical since everyone is doing it?

I was thinking the same thing, until I realised there's the law of unintended consequences with such things. If the regulation was relaxed to permit gills, it would have to be tightly written to prevent teams doing something unexpected.
QLDriver
 
Joined: 23 Jul 2011
Location: Bucks Co. PA, USA

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:37 am

QLDriver wrote:
forty-two wrote:Isn't it sort of BS that these teams are still joining their gills with a tiny slot to make it "one opening"? Surely this could just be agreed to be nonsensical since everyone is doing it?

I was thinking the same thing, until I realised there's the law of unintended consequences with such things. If the regulation was relaxed to permit gills, it would have to be tightly written to prevent teams doing something unexpected.


You are of course right here.

Tight regulation tends to favour innovation, as can be seen in Ham radio; Government restricts the energy and frequencies, the guys find a workaround. Story is the same with F1.

Foolish of me to suggest otherwise. Sorry all.
The answer to the ultimate question, of life, the Universe and ... Everything?
forty-two
 
Joined: 1 Mar 2010

Post Sun Apr 22, 2012 8:01 pm

I've just done the usual post race tidy up.

If your comment isn't about a feature on this car then don't post in this thread.

Lap times and race discussion go to the race thread :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12563&view=unread#unread

General McLaren chat goes to the team thread :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12100&view=unread#unread

Just occasionally, some posts go to a special place :o :arrow: viewtopic.php?p=337383#p337383
Richard
 
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: UK

Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:35 pm

Not sure if this is a repost - but great view on the McLaren behind:

Image
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raymondu999
 
Joined: 4 Feb 2010

Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:11 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Not sure if this is a repost - but great view on the McLaren behind:

[img]http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/mcla-bahr-2012.jpg[img]


With the exhausts pointing a little more outward, it seems that they are heating up the rear tyres using the exhaust gases. Could this be the reason for their poor race pace, since they could be overheating their rear tyres too much? Its great for 1 lap, but after a few laps it gets too much....
Last edited by mx_tifoso on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: disabled img tags. see previous post
Vasco
 
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Post Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:20 pm

Well possibly and pre-season testing did show it could be problematic, but as for the poor performance in Bahrain my money is on the noticeably different track temperature compared to saturday. Lotus did their heavy fuel runs on friday. The conditions and track temperature especially was very similar to friday. If McLaren chose a setup based on saturday track temperatures chances are they would have had a hard time hitting the narrow operating window of the Pirellis.
JMN
 
Joined: 29 Aug 2010

Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:33 am

Credit to F1.talks on twitter who discovered this interesting of Mp4/27 durring pitstop. It shows the path of exhaust flow when car is stationary.

Image
Forza
 
Joined: 8 Sep 2010

Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:46 am

This is a bit speculative, but... Might the air temperature answer why McLaren did poorly at Bahrain – might it be that they're dependant on air temperature, (and hence the presure and density of the air flowing over the side pod) to get the exhaust to sink towards the diffuser by exactly the right amount? Might it be that they were missing their optimal diffuser sealing?
beelsebob
 
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: Cupertino, California

Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:12 pm

beelsebob wrote:This is a bit speculative, but... Might the air temperature answer why McLaren did poorly at Bahrain – might it be that they're dependant on air temperature, (and hence the presure and density of the air flowing over the side pod) to get the exhaust to sink towards the diffuser by exactly the right amount? Might it be that they were missing their optimal diffuser sealing?


Well, I guess it may be. After all, besides Malaysia (and this year rain somewhat altered the normal racing conditions), Barhain is the only other super-hot GP of the season, and I can imagine McL relying on standard air conditions while designing their rear aerodynamics.
Nevertheless, in my opinion, this may not be the case. Most summer races can be very hot too, and an aero set-up this sensitive could spoil the pace on a number of similar conditions, making it difficult to rely on the car's ability to perform properly in non-standard weather conditions.

My 2 cents anyway :wink:
ame85
 
Joined: 23 Apr 2012
Location: Italy

Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:35 pm

Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???
I've found a way of ducting exhaust right to the diffuser edge like in 2011 and created a new wheel fastener that could allow sub 2 second pitstops see them here --> My 2013 F1 Concept Project
MIKEY_!
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2011
Location: On my horse, my horse is amazing.

Post Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:48 pm

MIKEY_! wrote:Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???


Car is stationary, so no coanda effect dragging the exhaust gasses down. The exhaust pipes point upwards, per regs., so any exhaust smoke will naturally rise.
gilgen
 
Joined: 3 Apr 2010

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