Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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Matt Somers
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Matt Somers » Sat May 05, 2012 11:54 am

Perhaps this old picture I have of a flo-viz'd McLaren rear wing will help show how the flow moves across the endplates?

Image
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Huntresa
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Huntresa » Sat May 05, 2012 12:09 pm

Well the part nearest the wing isnt there now, cause they have a cutout there aswell meaing the fins is more inwards and the side is outwards.

hardingfv32
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby hardingfv32 » Sat May 05, 2012 5:57 pm

AnthonyG wrote:Question: why if the problem is air comming from beneith the wing, does the winglet tries to cut off the top and not the bottom?
I understand how the "current" solution works, but it seems more logical to tackle the bottom.


The low pressure region (distance from wing surface) on the low pressure side of a wing is many times larger than the high side of a wing. Is that on point?

Brian

hardingfv32
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby hardingfv32 » Sat May 05, 2012 6:01 pm

In the above end plate photo, what is happening to the flow behind the second element/flap? Does this look correct or could the test have been done with the flap up?

Brian

Lycoming
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Lycoming » Sun May 06, 2012 7:26 am

This looks like the wing they ran in the beginning of 2011, the one with the most prominent vortices....

ledzep4pm
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby ledzep4pm » Sun May 06, 2012 7:45 am

Here is my 2 cents about the louvres:

The Top surface of the wing is undoubtedly high pressure. The underside of the wing is lower pressure(I'm not sure on absolute figures but it is a lot closer to atmospheric pressure than the top surface). And outside the end plate is atmospheric pressure.

Without the louvres the large flow rate and pressure differentials cause large trailing edge vortices (the things you see in the wet). The louvre simpley allows a more 'gentle' equilisation at the edge of the wing. This reduces the overall downforce but drastically increases the efficiency, reducing drag.
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Giando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Giando » Mon May 07, 2012 10:02 am


MIKEY_!
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby MIKEY_! » Mon May 07, 2012 10:16 am

Natural evolution having lost the snow plough
I've found a way of ducting exhaust right to the diffuser edge like in 2011 and created a new wheel fastener that could allow sub 2 second pitstops see them here --> My 2013 F1 Concept Project

Giando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Giando » Mon May 07, 2012 10:21 am

MIKEY_! wrote:Natural evolution having lost the snow plough


Yes, well... 'natural' if you have a wind-tunnel and all the data of the car...
I didn't expect it, for sure... did you?! For real?!? :wink:

It's expensive, it has to pass new crash-tests and it is not easy to design as it is higher than the previous one
but has to comply with the controversial 2012's chassis and nose heights rules...

I personally think it's a great effort by McLaren. :!:

:mrgreen:

shelly
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby shelly » Mon May 07, 2012 10:23 am

When / how did they test it without it being in the news-coverage of tests?

Edit: read the linked article and found the answer (tested so briefly that no one noticed). Still surprising though, that no one had noticed yet
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MIKEY_!
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby MIKEY_! » Mon May 07, 2012 10:27 am

I was surprised we ever saw the previous version, between the snowplough nose and this nose. It may not have required a new crash test, sometimes (but not very often) the crash structure is internal only. Not that impressive either, TR managed a much bigger change last year.
I've found a way of ducting exhaust right to the diffuser edge like in 2011 and created a new wheel fastener that could allow sub 2 second pitstops see them here --> My 2013 F1 Concept Project

Giando
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Giando » Mon May 07, 2012 10:38 am

MIKEY_! wrote:I was surprised we ever saw the previous version, between the snowplough nose and this nose. It may not have required a new crash test, sometimes (but not very often) the crash structure is internal only. Not that impressive either, TR managed a much bigger change last year.


?!? What ?!?

This was maybe 20 years ago... according to my knowledge.

-

Anyway... different points of view, mate... :wink:
TR managed to change their nose cone in the middle of the season, not after 4 races...

Last radical nose-cone change i remember was the RB in 2009, but again in the middle of the season (Silverstone).
Previously the Ferrari F310B nose from ultra low to high back in 1996, but it was mainly to gain performance out of a bad car.

McLaren is already one the 2/3 best cars on the field and this is a huge step, imho.

:)

silversurf3r
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby silversurf3r » Mon May 07, 2012 11:57 am

[quote="Giando"]New nose cone for McLaren secretly tested at Mugello.

Wow! Did not see this coming. I thought the car was built around the aero philosophy of the lower nose? How do you guys see this effecting performance? There must be fairly significant benefits to make such a big change. This is definitely the best compromise solution I have seen on any of this years noses. (superficially at least)

Huntresa
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Huntresa » Mon May 07, 2012 12:32 pm

silversurf3r wrote:
Giando wrote:New nose cone for McLaren secretly tested at Mugello.

Wow! Did not see this coming. I thought the car was built around the aero philosophy of the lower nose? How do you guys see this effecting performance? There must be fairly significant benefits to make such a big change. This is definitely the best compromise solution I have seen on any of this years noses. (superficially at least)


Its still pretty low. Also is it shadows or does it go down then up ?

simieski
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby simieski » Mon May 07, 2012 12:34 pm

hardingfv32 wrote:
AnthonyG wrote:Question: why if the problem is air comming from beneith the wing, does the winglet tries to cut off the top and not the bottom?
I understand how the "current" solution works, but it seems more logical to tackle the bottom.


The low pressure region (distance from wing surface) on the low pressure side of a wing is many times larger than the high side of a wing. Is that on point?

Brian


Due to the sheer size of some aircraft winglets, e.g 737ng, ground clearance would also be a problem if they were mounted on the bottom surface.
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