McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

trinidefender wrote:
bhall II wrote:They're called tubercles, developed by Mother Nature several million years ago in the Miocene as an adaptation on the pectoral fins of humpback whales that increases their maneuverability.

http://i.imgur.com/2jKluQx.jpg

Used on an airfoil, they make it more efficient by inhibiting spanwise flow (for increased lift/downforce), which also reduces the strength of tip vortices (less drag). They apparently delay stall as well, so it'll be interesting to see how the development affects McLaren's DRS.

http://i.imgur.com/GhaExiB.jpg

Source: I just looked this --- up.
The problem is that on the whales they are on the leading edge of the fins. Here they are on the trailing edge of the first wing element. Means that they can't work the same.
They aren't exactly whales either. Else we had restrictions on organic aerodynamics.

I think the principle still is appliable.
#AeroFrodo

trinidefender
trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

bhall II wrote:
trinidefender wrote:The problem is that on the whales they are on the leading edge of the fins. Here they are on the trailing edge of the first wing element. Means that they can't work the same.
I think you missed the tubercles on the leading edge of the flap.

http://i.imgur.com/Z7O85A9.jpg
You are correct. In the pics before I only saw them on the trailing edge on the first element. Just noticed that they are on the leading edge of the DRS element as well.

Seeing it like this I would think that they do function similarly as on the whales but because they are so close they must interact with each other. What exactly happens when they interact interests me.

bhall II
bhall II
473
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

trinidefender wrote:...What exactly happens when they interact interests me.
Me, too. I imagine the action of the trailing edge tubercles on the main plane is twofold: they increase the efficiency of the main plane, just like on the Pescarolo, and they act upon the underside of the flap. It would then seem the leading edge tubercles on the flap act on the top of the flap.

The idea that they help flow reattach when DRS is disengaged is compelling. But, wouldn't that also mean they reduce the efficacy of DRS?

User avatar
Thunder
Moderator
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 09:50
Location: Germany

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

Someone over at the Autosport Forum posted this.

Image

Edit: And some more from AMuS....

Old
Image

New
Image
Image
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

User avatar
gary123
14
Joined: 12 Jan 2013, 20:49
Location: Italy

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

Image
source F1passion.it

bhall II
bhall II
473
Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

I think the tubercles are meant for good, ol' fashioned downforce. We've seen teams up and down the grid trial a variety of solutions to deal with this season's downforce cuts, from Red Bull's early experiments with slot-loss rear wing end plates to Ferrari's extreme rear wing camber and AoA, even though such solutions, by nature, increase drag.

If the tubercles can help keep air flow attached - in that sense, think of them as blunt vortex generators - then McLaren can run higher AoA for more downforce without the risk of stalling the wing.

boyracer94
boyracer94
4
Joined: 19 Feb 2010, 20:00

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

I knew I'd seen this concept applied to F1 somewhere before:
http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... &start=390
LegendaryM wrote:I intend to work in aerodynamics, im only 17.

Here is a picture of the beam wing and the ris, with the humpback whale inspired leading edge:
Image

I think this is legal as i think the 100mm radius rule is in a longitudinal plane
"It seems the bumps have the effect of channeling air into smaller areas of the blade, resulting in a higher wind speed through the channels and a number of rotating airflows on top of the blade which increase lift. Furthermore, the bumps eliminate the tendency of air to run down the length of the blade's edge and fly off at the tip, causing noise, instability and a loss of efficiency."
source: http://www.gizmag.com/bumpy-whale-fins- ... mics/9020/


f1rules
f1rules
569
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

one more, this time from danish media

http://www.bt.dk/sites/default/files-dk ... 21-518.jpg

trinidefender
trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

Are they still using the "L" shaped slot in the floor in front of the rear tyre that looks very similar to the red bull one? Was introduced in silverstone

f1rules
f1rules
569
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

yes they are, seems everything they bring at the moment works, so thats a positive

Absolutelee
Absolutelee
1
Joined: 05 Jun 2012, 01:55

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

I'm having trouble seeing if the tubercles on the two wings line up, or alternate. What I mean is if you held the two edges together would the tips touch and leave holes in between or would the match up like a zipper?

JDC123
JDC123
30
Joined: 20 Jun 2013, 21:02

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

Absolutelee wrote:I'm having trouble seeing if the tubercles on the two wings line up, or alternate. What I mean is if you held the two edges together would the tips touch and leave holes in between or would the match up like a zipper?
I think they may be alternate like a 'zipper'.

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
27
Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

I see the butterfly suspension has 4 elements once again

stefan_
stefan_
696
Joined: 04 Feb 2012, 12:43
Location: Bucharest, Romania

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

Post

Germany 2014 - Friday (19.07.2014)

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985