Mclaren MP4-29H

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Th3GoodSon wrote:Hi all, fairly new here but I think there's something many of you are missing based on what Honda has said and so on. My background is in Project Management and I feel we're not giving that aspect of running a car enough thought here. Let me explain what I mean!

Firstly, yes this test must have been a disappointment to them and I'm sure they would like to have done laps. However going on about 'running it in Woking' misses a big point as to WHAT has gone wrong here. As we are led to understand the issue has been with data sensors, the installation of systems, the remote telemetry and numerous other important integration issues. When testing this car they're not just looking at mechanical reliability. In fact I can see no evidence there was a MECHANICAL or even ERS failure - rather a failure in communications and processes.

Honda has been out of F1 for a while and McLaren as an outfit has been working with Mercedes all year (and for many years previously). As well as getting an engine to run both groups need to work TOGETHER in the garage, on the track and off the track. You cannot accurately simulate that in Woking and even in Silverstone, at least not to the level of flying all your staff out to a foreign country in a non-idea garage and making things work. What Honda and McLaren have learned here and what they cannot adequately learn back in the UK is where the meshing between technicians, mechanics and management break down. Mistakes have been made. More then any of us would have liked to see. But you can bet they sure as hell have been paying attention to every mess up, slip up, miss-installed part and communication (even LANGUAGE BARRIER) problems they have experienced.

Our 'proof' of Honda and the engine will come in February. We know it doesn't catch fire (see filming day) but we have no idea if it's good or bad because the issues faced have not been with the engine, but rather how the engine is handled by the support team around the engine. I'm not happy, but I'm no sad and I sure as hell am glad they've found all these problems BEFORE February!
I agree with you 100%. I wish I could up-vote you on this (the Mods don't allow me to :-# ). It flew over peoples' heads that this test is not just to see if the engine blows up. It's a test of the integral systems. Communications back to the Honda factory most of all. Since Mercedes is gone, Mclaren and Honda have to build the communications backbone all over again. The engine works. They know that. The ERS works. Nothing new to Honda. But what about the live up-link to the other side of the globe? If the engine hiccups will the guru's in Japan see it? Now that's what these guys are testing.
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Sasha
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Joined: 07 Jul 2013, 07:43

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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That is the basic PU design Honda is going to use next year.

The two different engines they was going to test was one with standard exhaust and the other with log exhaust.

The only major changes will be with code.

Hints are that it is split-turbo but there is no good pictures of the fact(it is cover-up pretty good with shroud).

Knowing Honda it will be testing in Japan this Winter in one of their research F1 test cars but how much will that help.

Because who knowns, the problem could be with Mclaren(systems they designed and installed).The battery system is designed by Mclaren and alot of the code for regen.

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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chenpei24730 wrote:
Th3GoodSon wrote: In fact I can see no evidence there was a MECHANICAL or even ERS failure - rather a failure in communications and processes.
I think you have made a point and it makes sense. If you were right, MC found even if they made the car run, they can not get any data, so they would rather choose not to run, because they have confidence of the reliability? All they need is the data.

But what worried me is the stop during today's test. That must be some mechanical problem, right?
Not necessarily, the team could have lost data through the lap and asked Stoffel to stop the car to prevent a failure.

From watching f1 this season, an unexpected stop on track often results in an electrical problem and the cars and engines are mainly eletrical now, hence why we have to call the 'power units'. :roll:

Way to contradict myself in one post hey? #-o
Just a fan's point of view

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Sasha wrote:That is the basic PU design Honda is going to use next year.

The two different engines they was going to test was one with standard exhaust and the other with log exhaust.

The only major changes will be with code.

Hints are that it is split-turbo but there is no good pictures of the fact(it is cover-up pretty good with shroud).

Knowing Honda it will be testing in Japan this Winter in one of their research F1 test cars but how much will that help.

Because who knowns, the problem could be with Mclaren(systems they designed and installed).The battery system is designed by Mclaren and alot of the code for regen.
The Silverstone engine was with the divorced turbo. if you looked closely you could see the airbox is short and goes directly downwards after the inlet. I Will try to adjust the photo to show it then post it here.
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stefan_
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Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985

Skippon
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Joined: 19 Nov 2010, 00:49
Location: England

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Reading between the lines.... Most likely problem is given that Boullier explained that electrics worked separately but not together is some form of EMC issue.
i.e. When they attempt power transfer, motoring or harvesting, the electrical noise is killing sensors or corrupting a CAN bus to ECU.
They'll have fun with that one - hard to solve without an excellent dyno set up!!! :lol:

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Sounds badass.
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

60DShim
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Joined: 11 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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That does sound quite good.

Raleigh
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Joined: 29 Jul 2014, 15:36

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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As far as my understanding goes, free testing cannot be performed in "vehicles that substantially conform to current regulations".

Is there any reasonable way for McLaren to modify this car, perhaps by removing wings and other aerodynamic components, so that they could perform unlimited engine testing with it?

You don't exactly need downforce to drive up and down a runway, but it would certainly help get the engine in good shape for 2015...

Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Raleigh wrote:As far as my understanding goes, free testing cannot be performed in "vehicles that substantially conform to current regulations".

Is there any reasonable way for McLaren to modify this car, perhaps by removing wings and other aerodynamic components, so that they could perform unlimited engine testing with it?

You don't exactly need downforce to drive up and down a runway, but it would certainly help get the engine in good shape for 2015...
I wonder if they could do something like modify a P1 to act as a test bed for the engine. Then they'd find out all of the glitches they're going to get at any point on a circuit.

akshat21
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Joined: 05 Feb 2010, 23:23

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Raleigh wrote:As far as my understanding goes, free testing cannot be performed in "vehicles that substantially conform to current regulations".

Is there any reasonable way for McLaren to modify this car, perhaps by removing wings and other aerodynamic components, so that they could perform unlimited engine testing with it?

You don't exactly need downforce to drive up and down a runway, but it would certainly help get the engine in good shape for 2015...
IIRC, Renault did a lot of testing with Torro Rosso or Red Bull (Cant remember which) post homologation with the wings removed.. As the car was not being run for Aero Reasons and was modified enough that no useful aero data is available it was considered legal.

McL can go that route during the winter if they choose to do that.

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WaikeCU
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Joined: 14 May 2014, 00:03

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Is there any restrictions towards straight line testing? If not, I can't see why they won't perform these straight line testing throughout the winter if it's just about firing the engine and going through the gears before decelerating too a stop, over and over again with the accompanied procedures that are needed to be checked.

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
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Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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All they have to do is take of the wings and do straight line runs on a Airport strip :twisted:

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F1NAC
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Joined: 31 Mar 2013, 22:35

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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akshat21 wrote:
Raleigh wrote:As far as my understanding goes, free testing cannot be performed in "vehicles that substantially conform to current regulations".

Is there any reasonable way for McLaren to modify this car, perhaps by removing wings and other aerodynamic components, so that they could perform unlimited engine testing with it?

You don't exactly need downforce to drive up and down a runway, but it would certainly help get the engine in good shape for 2015...
IIRC, Renault did a lot of testing with Torro Rosso or Red Bull (Cant remember which) post homologation with the wings removed.. As the car was not being run for Aero Reasons and was modified enough that no useful aero data is available it was considered legal.

McL can go that route during the winter if they choose to do that.
Didnt they tested with TR on dyno?

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a1b2i3r45
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Joined: 27 Nov 2014, 09:49

Re: Mclaren MP4-29H

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Merc was able to make all the components of their PU work together effectively at the first time running. Does it mean they have a more accurate simulation programme compared to others?

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