Red Bull Renault RB11 speculation thread

[OO7]

RBR have always run skinnier rear wings than other teams however, even when they were dominating in the V8 era.

[Juzh]

RBR have always run skinnier rear wings than other teams however, even when they were dominating in the V8 era.

Before 2014, this only happened in the second half of 2013 and in monza 2011, and certainly not "always".

[OO7]

RBR have always run skinnier rear wings than other teams however, even when they were dominating in the V8 era.

Before 2014, this only happened in the second half of 2013 and in monza 2011, and certainly not "always".

From what I recall if was pretty standard on their set-ups.

BTW by skinny I don't mean Monza levels, I just mean that their rear wing was pretty much consistently less deep (had less frontal area) than that of other teams.

[Juzh]

Nope.
If you remember any specific examples other than the ones I mentioned plz share them.

[Sevach]

Nope.
If you remember any specific examples other than the ones I mentioned plz share them.

Australia 2013





Canada 2013





Japan 2013





It was a lot more common than you think.

[OO7]

Thank you Sevach.

Nope.
If you remember any specific examples other than the ones I mentioned plz share them.

Here are some from 2012:

Australian GP:





2012 Spanish GP:




2012 Canadian GP:


2012 European GP:



It was far easier to notice when watching actual video footage.

[Juzh]

You are correct of course However, I still think later half of 2013 was the more extreme example. They also had good reasons for lesser wing angles back then with the best diffuser sealing. They gained more lap time by lowering wing angles and gaining top speed, whereas in 2014 it was the other way around. They were forced to lower their angles to gain some speed and not be sitting ducks, but in doing so lost laptime. Confirmed by both vet and ric. Sometimes they went completely bonkers though. SPA setup in usa of all places.

[Sevach]

In 2013 it's pretty much throw a rock and you will hit something, Red Bull had less wing on the majority of the tracks (Monaco, Hungaroring and Singapore are the obvious exceptions).

[Blackout]

So according to Abiteboul, the main problem was knocking:

"The major problem we had to deal with, affects the internal combustion engine and the direct injection, explains Cyril Abiteboul. The knocking is the major problem that we experienced in 2014 and we are working on it for the new season.
That's one of the reasons we called Illmor
We entrusted Mario Illien's engineers a project study related to the internal combustion engine. The idea is to cross our ideas and theirs, to eliminate the least efficient solutions.»

[henra]

So according to Abiteboul, the main problem was knocking:

Interesting!

Could that also be due to higher temperature of the air fed into the cylinders caused by the missing separation of hot and cold side of the Turbo?
Apart from that why should Renault encounter such an age old Turbo ICE Problem nowadays? What was different from their assumptions?

[mrluke]

Because all of the engine manufacturers are pushing the limit of what is possible.

You cant just pull some timing and add some fuel to get rid of knock because you are handing away power.

[lio007]

Could that also be due to higher temperature of the air fed into the cylinders caused by the missing separation of hot and cold side of the Turbo?

But Abiteboul also said they stick with the non-split-turbo-layout because they feel it's the better solution for them.

[gandharva]

http://www.canalplus.fr/c-sport/c-formu ... rt-f1.html

At least they finally have test benches that include batteries... With Illmore helping to fix the knocking problems and RBR as kings of simulation there could have been a lot of unused potential (not necessarily raw power!) even in last years engine spec that they simply could not use until now. In this context the rumored (Pirelli) 2-3 seconds per lap improvement for 2015 finally make some sense.

[NathanOlder]

Apart from that why should Renault encounter such an age old Turbo ICE Problem nowadays? What was different from their assumptions?

They forgot to factor in the effects of Global warming

[Gridlock]

I assume with a standardised ECU knocking would be a "snowball" problem, as the KERs would be unable to blend in successfully? Or is the ICE-KERs interplay solely handled by the CE side, and therefore you can teach your non-ICE power sources to work around the weird power curve?