Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Samraj_official
5
Joined: 11 Jun 2015, 11:19
Location: chennai,INDIA

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

they can say everything they want all to go wrong during the race. lets wait and watch!!!!!!!

User avatar
mclaren111
272
Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

This is a really good picture of new FW:

Image

Apologies if it has been posted before #-o

trinidefender
317
Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

mclaren111 wrote:This is a really good picture of new FW:

http://img1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/McL ... 881607.jpg

Apologies if it has been posted before #-o
Both of the front wings are relatively new. They both have the updated inner sections near to the neutral sections.

Also I think, not 100% sure though, that the general outside sections of the wing near to the endplate is different (not including the vertical strake next to the endplate).

PhillipM
385
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Yes, there's a bit of seperation between the rollover and the vertical fence/endplate there.

tranquility2k4
20
Joined: 22 Feb 2013, 14:14

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Interesting quote from Eric on F1 website:

"Q: McLaren and Honda had a schedule for when they would be competitive again. How far off that are you right now?

EB: Difficult to pin it down to a number. If you tell me tomorrow that we can run full downforce then we will be seconds faster."

He suggests they can't currently run their "full amount of downforce" probably due to the engine being so bad. But he suggests seconds faster - I can only assume he means that in the way that if the engine was very competitive then they would also be able to bolt on more downforce.

User avatar
DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

tranquility2k4 wrote:Interesting quote from Eric on F1 website:

"Q: McLaren and Honda had a schedule for when they would be competitive again. How far off that are you right now?

EB: Difficult to pin it down to a number. If you tell me tomorrow that we can run full downforce then we will be seconds faster."

He suggests they can't currently run their "full amount of downforce" probably due to the engine being so bad. But he suggests seconds faster - I can only assume he means that in the way that if the engine was very competitive then they would also be able to bolt on more downforce.
Isn't that always the case?

GoranF1
155
Joined: 16 Dec 2014, 12:53
Location: Zagreb,Croatia
Contact:

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

MP4-30 Chassis in Woking factory.

Image
Image
Image
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."

vantage87
11
Joined: 03 Apr 2014, 20:19

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

What’s wrong with McLaren Honda? - article from formulaupdate.com

When underperforming teams come into the equation, McLaren Honda springs to mind. This calendar year has been a real struggle for the Woking based team. Honda are back in Formula 1, and supply McLaren their power unit, but unfortunately the high expectations of the 1980’s have not been met.

McLaren Honda are arguably the slowest team this year (not including Manor due to the older chassis) as a result of Honda not investing enough money and time on the new engine, which is over three seconds slower compared to the Mercedes.

So what are the issues with the MP4-30? Here is a technical analysis of this troublesome racer showing its pros as well as the cons.

Chassis
Image
When looking at the body work of the car, you straight away note how narrow the rear end is. This is the “size-zero” concept. This is one of McLaren’s most innovative designs we have seen in a long time. With unique changes to the engine (which we will get onto later) McLaren were able to get the perfect rear end on the car.

A tighter rear ends means there is less surface area to prevent the air flow from getting to the rear wing, and to be worked by the main planes and endplates of the rear wing assembly.

When looking at the rear wing itself, there has been some nice touches for more downforce and flow management. At the base of the endplates we can see the cut-out serrations which are mounted to the roof of the diffuser. McLaren have really styled theirs aggressively for a wider range of flow control. The flow will be evenly distributed as it exits the vanes. This will help the cars balance by giving a settled rear end.

Furthermore, when looking at the top of the endplate we can see a high amount of louvres. This is a way teams break down the vortices which therefore means less drag. McLaren have fairly long ones compared to its rivals, for a bigger effect. McLaren also run swirls on the outer section. These help feed the mainplane air flow, on the MP4-30 there are lots of them, so the effect is amplitude, so will gain some more downforce.

McLaren ran tubercles at the start of the year, on the leading main plane. It helps delay separation with the vortex induction when the wing is stalled to lower drag levels. The design didn’t work to plan and was later dropped. They are still using the naked main plane.

When looking at the central section of the car, the side pods duct on the MP4-30 seems smaller than that of that of the MP4-29, this is likely due to lessons learned about the cooling demands of the new power units, as well as the new architecture of the power unit. The new design sees a very free-flowing sculpture going right to the tightly packaged rear end.

The front wing is one of the best assets on the car, which has been heavily revised this year. At this moment in time, they are running a four tier main plane concept with extra-long strakes on the underside of the foot plate.

They are also running a nicely designed cascade on the outer inboard sections of the front wing. The cascade is three-tier with a turning vane mounted on the top for a better grip on the air flow, of which is getting pushed around the font tyre. Due to the engine being slow, McLaren have had to run low wing angles to make up for the straight line speed, which has effected grip.

I believe there is more to come from the front wing, as both Jenson and Fernando have suffered lots of understeer, but the team has to run this as the engine is slower.

Furthermore, McLaren updated its nose structure, which was a pain to get it through the crash structure says the technical director for McLaren, Tim Goss. The old design was the ‘almond’ idea, which is the easiest to get through the crash structure, but not the best for aerodynamics at the front, and so halted the car’s performance. It features a smooth transition and is very linear in plan form. The overhang was really on show and with the front wing mounts behind it made positioning it difficult, without creating too much turbulent flow. This is not the best nose solution.

Shortly after the Spanish Grand Prix, McLaren showed off its ‘pimple’ nose off to the public. In this design you have to achieve two cross-sectional areas without fail, therefore making it hard to meet, and get in trough the crash test. This nose really blends the air flow under the chassis, to then be worked by the barge boards and diffuser at the back of the car. The venturi effect can be very powerful, so anyway to create a clean flow to the diffuser is a plus. McLaren really needed a better nose design as the ‘almond’ one is not best for rear or front aerodynamics.

Finally, another good feature on the car is the blow front axle. Air enter via an enlarged brake duct and exits via the wheel nut. What this does is push the front tyre and wing wake away from the rear wing. So with a cleaner flow of air, the rear wing can produce more downforce.

Suspension
Image
McLaren run push rod all round with torsion bar up front. Although when looking at the front bulkhead, the torsion bar and twin springs cannot be seen. The reason being is that McLaren introduced a fluid principle of the S-duct. The S-duct is a way to pump high pressure air above the chassis for less turbulence and more downforce. This neat concept has been widely adapted in Formula 1 by the likes of Red Bull and Force India. There is an ‘S’ shaped duct now mounted on the front bulkhead, covering up its suspension and heave spring.

McLaren have also imported some super slim control arms at the front, while maintaining the fairings in the back upper and lower wishbones, although the aerofoil is much slimmer then on their previous car. I really like the suspension on the MP4-30, it’s very innovative and seems to be working well.

Power Unit
Image
The RA615H power unit has been plagued with problems this year, as seen in the Abu Dhabi test ( first running of the new engine) we had last year. When they ran the MP4-29H in Abu Dhabi it was easy to note the new engine design was very tall, and not very wide compared the Mercedes unit they ran. The engine is slow and has bad reliability, and to add salt to the wound it’s also very thirsty.

At the test last year the car had to run side venting ducts as Honda could not control the cooling as it would have liked too. This was the first look at the car’s performance. The car was one of the slowest with no straight-line speed or corner speed, which really effected lap time. Honda actually started the build of the new unit fairly late, with its own Mono-Bloc cylinder built-in 2012, nothing else.

Some of the details and secrets came this year at the Jerez test. We were able to see that Honda have gone for a split-turbo concept across the ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) like Mercedes have done, dividing the compressor and exhaust driven sides of the turbine with the MGU-H along a long magnesium shaft, of which is a similar approach to the 2014 Mercedes, which they would have taken inspiration from.

Unlike the Mercedes power unit a duct feeds a water-jacket intercooler which is situated behind the driver and onto of the air box, and through a pair of plenums and into the combustion chamber of the 1.6 V6 engine. Through this we were able to see a completely machined aluminium plenum, which is completely new for Formula 1, as we always see Carbon Fibre designs. A look at the top of the engine with the plenum removed was on show early this year, as were able to view the injectors and covers as well as the new inlet trumpets for increased combustion rate.

A very neat design is the intercooler, which is mounted above the power unit, which is used to cool the turbocharger and MGU-H. The problem is that having a water system at that height above the engine can’t be good for centre of gravity. With lots a weight high up, and sloshing around, it can’t be good for balance either, but McLaren Honda must have seen through this, and still have it implemented.

But by having this, the chassis is able to have smaller side pods due to smaller radiators. And by adding an intercooler to the top of the engine block, it means it won’t be in the side pod, so even more space is saved. This was able to give McLaren the “size-zero” rear end.

Immediately apparent is the use of a Birmann type exhaust layout, something used on the 2014 Mercedes, which can give much better gas flow to the turbine and allowing for better energy recovery from the MGU-H. Mercedes switched to the more common Sulzer type exhaust manifold in 2015, which is pasted in heat shielding, which is ceramic and titanium.

In the side pods, the ducting for the radiators is mounted in the right hand side pod of the MP4-30. For the engine, the pipe coated in a gold coloured heat shield appears to supply the air from the compressor to the intercooler, while the sister pipe (Carbon Fibre black) seems to feed the combustion air flow back to the plenum. No pictures of the compressor have been taken as of yet, due the advanced design of it says Arai, and we don’t want other teams to see it.

For the ERS (Energy Recovery System) Honda mounted the MGU-K at the very foot of the engine block, below the collector styled exhaust. The MGU-H is the turbocharger, and is mounted at the very rear of the engine. Seals and efficiency have been tough to get right for Honda with reliability being a big issue.

For the battery pack mounting, Honda done many experiments on where to mount it, back in 2012 they mounted a battery under the driver’s legs of the survival cell, which was a nice idea, but not used. On the MP4-30 it’s mounted behind the driver and under the fuel tank.

Upgrade tokens
McLaren still have all its engine tokens bar one, which was used for modified ERS design. There will be a big engine upgrade after the Spa brake, which should be used first time at the Italian Grand Prix.

Conclusion

It’s simple, Honda did not put enough staff, money or time behind the new power unit, which has now put McLaren firmly at the back of the grid. The engine is just several leagues below Mercedes, and because of that, the chassis has had to have compromises. McLaren Honda will not be at the front of the grid until mid-next season, as long as they push the engineering and technology sides.

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
550
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Nice article.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

User avatar
Duke
5
Joined: 28 Oct 2013, 23:15

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Yep a great read.

User avatar
Thunder
Moderator
Joined: 06 Feb 2013, 09:50
Location: Germany

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Nice Article but nothing new really. Everything has been said or analysed before.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

User avatar
kosioBG
86
Joined: 20 Feb 2013, 11:31
Location: Austria

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

Hi guys, I'll be starting a 1:18 scale model of the MP4-30. Two questions whose answer I couldn't find:
1) what's the length of the car, and the wheelbase?
2) where is the oil tank, what's its shape?

Thanks in advance!

User avatar
dren
226
Joined: 03 Mar 2010, 14:14

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

That article states the intercooler is the cooler on top of the ICE. But we have this picture showing the charge pipes heading downwards:
Image

Also, the article stated Honda toyed around with several ES locations. Honda might have years ago, but the regulations pretty much state it has to be under the fuel cell.
Honda!

R_Redding
54
Joined: 30 Nov 2011, 14:22

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

I think the reasoning for the Aluminium plenum is quite clever , it gives them the plenum chamber and it also gives a safety factor , in that it will catch any disintergrating internal components .

I also think that until they sort their electrical ERS issue , we will not know for certain how "thirsty" the engine may or may not be. Its bound to be thirsty if they are only able to use ERS energy every other lap.


To be fair to the article , it look like a re-write of a Racecar-Eng article written in March 2015 before Boulier alluded to their ERS issues.
kosioBG wrote:Hi guys, I'll be starting a 1:18 scale model of the MP4-30. Two questions whose answer I couldn't find:
1) what's the length of the car, and the wheelbase?
2) where is the oil tank, what's its shape?

Thanks in advance!
It looks fairly conventional in both shape and location. At the front of the engine, centered, square CF box.

Image

Rob

User avatar
kosioBG
86
Joined: 20 Feb 2013, 11:31
Location: Austria

Re: Mclaren MP4-30 Honda

Post

R_Redding wrote: It looks fairly conventional in both shape and location. At the front of the engine, centered, square CF box.
Rob
thanks!

Post Reply