Red Bull RB11 Renault

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JDC123
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Joined: 20 Jun 2013, 21:02

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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BlackSwan wrote:
JDC123 wrote:
That gold coloured piped going from the air intake down to the rear wing centre support is interesting. Does anyone have any other pictures of this or know if this is just something used on the car whilst in the garage?
This was discussed some pages before... it should be the pipe for DRS actuator.
Ok thanks for clearing that up. So does that mean teams used to run a tube that thick through the end plates in previous years when they didn't use a central wing support? It does look quite thick!

felix
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008, 23:50
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Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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Engine maps for these cars really do seem highly sofisticated. Horner mentioned that they tried to go back to the winter testing map, but it simply wasn't working here at Melbourne.

Perhaps the bumpy nature of the track plays a role here, because the car looked terrible on the slow speed stuff (reminds me of the F14T).

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Blackout
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Joined: 09 Feb 2010, 04:12

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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So like already said, STR and RBR have a similar intercooler layout.
The main difference is the way each intercooler is connected to the compressor and intake maifold...
The RBR exhaust manifolds look much smaller too.
The RBR compressor-intercooler pipe is further from the exhausts but looks longer than the STR. And the intercooler-engine pipe is probably longer than the STR.
While the STR comp-inter pipe si shorter than the RBR, but is closer to the (bigger) exhausts. And the intercooler-engine pipe is probably shorter than the RBR.
That means the turbo-intercooler-engine circle is prbably smaller/faster in the STR. The exhausts 'just' need to be well insulated.
Top: STR10 and RBR11 left hand sidepod
Bottom: RBR11 right hand bottom
Image

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turbof1
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Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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Red Bull Front Wing changes:
Image

1. They extended the slot in the uppermost element across almost the fully span of the element. Previously the slot was limited to around half the span. The solution might be inspired by Ferrari. Red Bull now runs a wing with 6 (more or less) full span elements, the only one currently doing so on the grid.

2. They added a small element to the small winglet on the inside of the endplate. Looks to be fine tuning the airflow. Note that this winglet is directing to the small gap between the trailing edge tip of the endplate and the strake a bit more on the inside. A very complex series of vortices and airflow structures is going down in that particular region.

3. Red Bull also made changes to the cascade strakes. Previously they had a more straight profile, opposed to a more aero foil-like profile.

4. Not shown on the drawing, but they also removed one of the underbody strakes, going from 4 pieces to 3.
#AeroFrodo

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gandharva
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Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 15:19
Location: Munich

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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Why does RB11 not need that monster cooler? Or... where can you find it on RB11?

Image

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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gandharva wrote:Why does RB11 not need that monster cooler? Or... where can you find it on RB11?

http://abload.de/img/str-coolerlluaw.jpg
Nowhere. THey need to get one. lol
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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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That looks like the engine's water radiator. Notice how small the radiator is in the sidepod compared to the intercooler.
They have given the intercoolers precedent over the radiators. Maybe they are getting better performance than redbull for this fact alone.
For Sure!!

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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
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Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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RBR now copying Merc with new FW:

GP Times: Tech Bite: Red Bull's Australia-spec front-wing

Image

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turbof1
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Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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mclaren111 wrote:RBR now copying Merc with new FW:

GP Times: Tech Bite: Red Bull's Australia-spec front-wing

http://www.grandprixtimes.com//news/cac ... ysis-1.jpg
What? There is not a single thing on that wing that is by any means a copy from mercedes, or even inspired by mercedes. Mercedes' endplate leading edge is straight, have the uppermost elements completely seperated rather then a slot ending close to the tip and have a completely different winglet (more a strake tbh) on the inside of their endplate.

Even the article itself you are referring to (http://www.grandprixtimes.com/news/display/10033 , written by Matthew Somerfield), does not mention any connection with Mercedes.

So far Red Bull only copied the rear wing endplates from mercedes. But let's make no mistake: the RBR front wing is a completely authentic product of their own.
#AeroFrodo

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SiLo
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Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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He probably means the concept of turning a lot more air outside the front wheel. Whereas before they didn't turn so much of it.
Felipe Baby!

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turbof1
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Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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SiLo wrote:He probably means the concept of turning a lot more air outside the front wheel. Whereas before they didn't turn so much of it.
Gather round kids, it's time for another Turbof1's winged special!

Let's do a comparative analysis and show that Mercedes and Red Bull wing are completely seperate concepts which have no influence on eachother.

Mercedes Wing:
Image

Red Bull Wing:
Image

Let's first focus on the main wing elements:
Image
As you can see Mercedes sacrifices a bit of main wing area on the outside in order to have it a nice outwards bending curve.
Image
Red Bull on the other hand prefers to maximize close to the maximum allowed surface. Note that the edges of the 2 uppermost elements are integrated in the endplate! It also uses a strake on the uppermost elements. This strake is very important in managing the airflow around the tyre. In short red bull uses more of an upwash solution then effectively an outwash one, although the latter mentioned strake is a very important 'outlet' to outwash to quite an extent, pressing air between it and the endplate.

Then we have the cascades:
Image
Again Mercedes profiled their cascades to accentuate outwash, evident by the turning vane cascade and by bending the endplate the cascade.
Image
Again different philosophy here at red bull. They are producing more downforce and are more about upwashing their airflow rather then forcefully bending it outwards.

Finally we have endplate and apendages:
Image
A continuous endplate which curls quite heavy at the back, designed to outwash and upwash the airflow around the tyre. Creates vortices at its tips. The outside strake also generates a vortex which enhances the vortices upstream. The inside strake aids in upwashing the airflow along with creating a vortex on its own.
Image
Red Bull on the other hand does not have a continuous plate. Due the wing elements being so close to the footplate, red bull needed to make a slot to get sufficient air inbetween the elements to prevent stalling. The endplate curves a bit at the back, but not as much as the Mercedes on does. One has to note that Red Bull simply has not the room to do so because of the endplate being so much closer to the footplate edge. It's winglets on the inside have almost no AoA, and are there to guide the airflow towards the upper element strake, which helps outwashing the airflow.

As you can see, there's not a single part on both wings that have the same approach. Red Bull's and Mercedes' wings are 2 completely different approaches, with the rest of the field picking solution between the 2. Red Bull did this last year too btw; just like Mercedes they only finetuned what they got and did not introduce anything really new.
#AeroFrodo

miguelalvesreis
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Joined: 12 May 2012, 13:38

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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Cyril Abiteboul said on Auto-Hebdo that RB11 has some chassis issues also. He mentioned some instability with the rear

AlainProst
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 18:41

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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It's a general question but why this type of front wing fastening ? Why they don't make simple fastening between planes of the front wing ?

Moose
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Joined: 03 Oct 2014, 19:41

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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AlainProst wrote:It's a general question but why this type of front wing fastening ? Why they don't make simple fastening between planes of the front wing ?
Do you mean the arch from one to the other?

It works better aerodynamically than blocking the slot between the wing elements.

AlainProst
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Joined: 13 Feb 2015, 18:41

Re: Red Bull RB11 Renault

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Moose wrote:
AlainProst wrote:It's a general question but why this type of front wing fastening ? Why they don't make simple fastening between planes of the front wing ?
Do you mean the arch from one to the other?

It works better aerodynamically than blocking the slot between the wing elements.
Thank's and scuse me if this question is a little naive and off topic ! Actually, I was talking about arch between two horizontal planes. So you mean that it is in order to prevent blocking the slot isn't it ?

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