F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
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Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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bhall II wrote:If Ferrari's tilting rear wing works the way I suspect it works, the FIA is going to have to come up with a test that measures deflection after the support pylon has been heated by the exhaust...

http://i.imgur.com/vj5uSTl.jpg
Not even nessesery, you can easily design a flexy joint that you can tilt backwards with your pinky while it still can hold 400kg vertically.

bhall II
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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Jolle wrote:Not even nessesery, you can easily design a flexy joint that you can tilt backwards with your pinky while it still can hold 400kg vertically.
Unlike the front wing, the rear wing is subjected to both vertical and horizontal loads...
3.17.6 The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 950mm above the reference plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 190mm either side of it. The loads will be applied in a rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the relevant team.

Jolle
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Joined: 29 Jan 2014, 22:58
Location: Dordrecht

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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bhall II wrote:
Jolle wrote:Not even nessesery, you can easily design a flexy joint that you can tilt backwards with your pinky while it still can hold 400kg vertically.
Unlike the front wing, the rear wing is subjected to both vertical and horizontal loads...
3.17.6 The uppermost aerofoil element lying behind the rear wheel centre line may deflect no more than 5mm horizontally when a 500N load is applied horizontally. The load will be applied 950mm above the reference plane at three separate points which lie on the car centre line and 190mm either side of it. The loads will be applied in a rearward direction using a suitable 25mm wide adapter which must be supplied by the relevant team.
My bad! :D

wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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bhall II wrote:If Ferrari's tilting rear wing works the way I suspect it works, the FIA is going to have to come up with a test that measures deflection after the support pylon has been heated by the exhaust...

http://i.imgur.com/vj5uSTl.jpg
I remember when STR started running this type it was suggested as an idea. I personally waved it away because of metal fatigue and possible difficulty maintaining proper temperature etc. etc.

But seeing the Ferrari and seeing the engine cover flex as well it makes me think they are using the engine cover as a way to hold the pillar and retain sufficient integrity
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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dans79
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Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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according to Autosport the FIA did extra testing on the top 5 teams. However, it sounds like as usual they did it stupidly. At some point you would think they would figure out that modern composites can be really stiff along one axis , but flex fairly easily as soon as the force goes off axis a few degrees.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... wing-tests
The governing body has checked the rear wings of the top five constructors, even increasing the load by 50% to check if there was any flex above the legal load, and all were in conformity.

While the option to strengthen or revise flexibility tests exists in the regulations, the FIA sees no reason to do so at the current time.
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FoxHound
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Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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So the car is static when the test is conducted. As is the engine dormant along with all auxiliaries.

Ferrari's rear pylon heats up and gives it flexing properties while the car is in operation.
I'm going out on a bit of a limb here.... but...

Image

Running an a small volt electrified wire through a certain weave of carbon will also give a certain amount of flex to the heated part. Flex can be controlled by insulating no desirable areas of the wing, no?
Beats the test, but run the current through it and.....bingo!
JET set

bhall II
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Joined: 19 Jun 2014, 20:15

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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FoxHound wrote:Running an a small volt electrified wire through a certain weave of carbon will also give a certain amount of flex to the heated part. Flex can be controlled by insulating no desirable areas of the wing, no?
Beats the test, but run the current through it and.....bingo!
Front wings are easier to manipulate, because the FIA only subjects them to vertical loads in scrutineering - as opposed to the vertical and horizontal loads applied to the rear wing - and a relatively straightforward anisotropic carbon fiber layup can defeat such a simple test.

But, if you want a tin-foil hat conspiracy theory, here's one that I think is pretty sexy...
Aerodynamic performance enhancement of a flying wing using nanosecond pulsed DBD plasma actuator wrote:Experimental investigation of aerodynamic control on a 35° swept flying wing by means of nanosecond dielectric barrier discharge (NS-DBD) plasma was carried out at subsonic flow speed of 20–40 m/s, corresponding to Reynolds number of 3.1 × 105–6.2 × 105. In control condition, the plasma actuator was installed symmetrically on the leading edge of the wing. Lift coefficient, drag coefficient, lift-to-drag ratio and pitching moment coefficient were tested with and without control for a range of angles of attack. The tested results indicate that an increase of 14.5% in maximum lift coefficient, a decrease of 34.2% in drag coefficient, an increase of 22.4% in maximum lift-to-drag ratio and an increase of 2° at stall angle of attack could be achieved compared with the baseline case. The effects of pulsed frequency, amplitude and chord Reynolds number were also investigated. And the results revealed that control efficiency demonstrated strong dependence on pulsed frequency. Moreover, the results of pitching moment coefficient indicated that the breakdown of leading edge vortices could be delayed by plasma actuator at low pulsed frequencies.
wesley123 wrote:But seeing the Ferrari and seeing the engine cover flex as well it makes me think they are using the engine cover as a way to hold the pillar and retain sufficient integrity
If Ferrari's exhaust/wing pylon configuration is like the one found on Haas' VF-16, aka Ferrari Jr (below), I think any engine cover movement is probably incidental. That's purely speculative, though.

Image

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FoxHound
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Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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So an electrified pulse, through resonance of some sort(pulsed frequency) gives less drag and and more lift-to-drag.
Plausible, even if i don't understand the physics behind this.

But would this give the wing a flexing property too?
JET set

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FoxHound
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Joined: 23 Aug 2012, 16:50

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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JET set

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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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I think I've mentioned using plasma actuators to accelerate flow for a while now. Actually this isn't new tech it's been tinkered with for the last decade. And sure you can't really create a jet faster than 9 m/s without tunnels or supplementary ways of accelerating air flow(like a diffuser). This is perfect for a F1 car because most circuits, the places where you can make the most lap time is in low to mid speed corners. Using the jets to allow the aero surfaces to get a kick start into producing downforce will let you get on the power sooner.

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Mercedes monkey seat
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coincidence? 8)
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godlameroso
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
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Re: F1 - FIA has eye on flexing Ferrari, Red Bull

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Fact


It's entirely possible to create magnetic fields on the car skin.
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