Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Quantum
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017, 00:59

Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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djos wrote:
18 Apr 2017, 00:22
RedBull aren't the first big team to have wind tunnel correlation issues, Ferrari and Williams have had well documented issues too. In both instances it led to their demise as championship contenders for several years, in fact Williams never really recovered from their issues during the BMW and Cosworth era.
The way I see it, is that these correlation issues would rear their head in the previous iterations.
The main complaint we hear from the drivers is surrounding rear downforce, and the car ran a monkey seat in testing today.

When viewed in microcosm, it's easy to believe the story of 'correlation'. But the specificity of the problem, and what the (banned)suspension does for the car in relation to rake and downforce tells otherwise.

Correlation problems for a 60% model would not bring issues to the rear only. This would be front to back.
Ferrari is a good example of wind tunnel issues, where clearly they had problems with the front turn in and rear DF. Red Bull appear sharp in turn in, but lacking(drivers feedback) rear DF.
"Interplay of triads"

tmoneyr007
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Joined: 11 Feb 2014, 03:05

Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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DRS on rear wing is also "taller" Perhaps to clean-up air for when DRS is activated?

Is the suspension arm also slightly different on the test? The section running through the "bulge" in the bodywork?

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djos
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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I'd suggest the bulge in the body work is merely for better cooling due to the heat of daytime running vs the cooler nights from the race weekend.
"In downforce we trust"

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djos
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Quantum wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 00:42
djos wrote:
18 Apr 2017, 00:22
RedBull aren't the first big team to have wind tunnel correlation issues, Ferrari and Williams have had well documented issues too. In both instances it led to their demise as championship contenders for several years, in fact Williams never really recovered from their issues during the BMW and Cosworth era.
The way I see it, is that these correlation issues would rear their head in the previous iterations.
The main complaint we hear from the drivers is surrounding rear downforce, and the car ran a monkey seat in testing today.

When viewed in microcosm, it's easy to believe the story of 'correlation'. But the specificity of the problem, and what the (banned)suspension does for the car in relation to rake and downforce tells otherwise.

Correlation problems for a 60% model would not bring issues to the rear only. This would be front to back.
Ferrari is a good example of wind tunnel issues, where clearly they had problems with the front turn in and rear DF. Red Bull appear sharp in turn in, but lacking(drivers feedback) rear DF.
Correlation problems usually raise their head after upgrades - we dont know the timeline but clearly the RB12 was not impacted.
"In downforce we trust"

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Morteza
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Image

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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gandharva
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Joined: 06 Feb 2012, 15:19
Location: Munich

Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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New frontwing:

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carisi2k
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Joined: 15 Oct 2014, 23:26

Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Quantum wrote:
19 Apr 2017, 00:42
djos wrote:
18 Apr 2017, 00:22
RedBull aren't the first big team to have wind tunnel correlation issues, Ferrari and Williams have had well documented issues too. In both instances it led to their demise as championship contenders for several years, in fact Williams never really recovered from their issues during the BMW and Cosworth era.
The way I see it, is that these correlation issues would rear their head in the previous iterations.
The main complaint we hear from the drivers is surrounding rear downforce, and the car ran a monkey seat in testing today.

When viewed in microcosm, it's easy to believe the story of 'correlation'. But the specificity of the problem, and what the (banned)suspension does for the car in relation to rake and downforce tells otherwise.

Correlation problems for a 60% model would not bring issues to the rear only. This would be front to back.
Ferrari is a good example of wind tunnel issues, where clearly they had problems with the front turn in and rear DF. Red Bull appear sharp in turn in, but lacking(drivers feedback) rear DF.
I agree that I don't think it is a wind tunnel issue because the car was keeping up with the Merc and Ferrari in the first stint and then lost the plot when going to the soft tyre. Aside from the downforce I think most of the problem is tyre related and the heavier 2016 ers system. Red Bull shouldn't really do anything more then add the monkey seat or t-wing until they have a full 2017 package to see where they are in relation to the top 2. Understanding the soft, medium and hard tyre might help avoid the problem in the race to help improve performance.

PhillipM
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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They kept up, as did a lot of the grid, because Bottas was slow and holding the pack up in the front stint.

Correlation problems can lead to overall downforce loss, front and/or rear imbalance, etc, anything really, that's kind of the point, you can't tell what it's doing because you've lost correlation. Some things may work as expected, some may not.

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gandharva
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Sotschi via AMUS

Old turning vanes from Barcelona test and new frontwing from Bahrain test.

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Thunder
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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Godius
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Melbourne:
Morteza wrote:
24 Mar 2017, 07:07
Some very nice shots by AMuS


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Сочи:
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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Via AMuS
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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Severe heat damage:
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"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

cplchanb
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 19:13

Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 14:50
Severe heat damage:
I didnt get to watch the race or scroll through countless pages on the race thread but
how did ric's brake just fail so early especially since the first few laps were under SC?
Was there a seized caliper that just overheated the brakes?

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ScrewCaptain27
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Re: Red Bull RB13 TAG Heuer

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cplchanb wrote:
01 May 2017, 16:19
ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
30 Apr 2017, 14:50
Severe heat damage:
I didnt get to watch the race or scroll through countless pages on the race thread but
how did ric's brake just fail so early especially since the first few laps were under SC?
Was there a seized caliper that just overheated the brakes?
Might also be some debris stuck in the brake duct. The same happened to Alonso in Spain 2015.
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

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