2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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DaveW
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Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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godlameroso wrote:What effect will having increased motion ratios have on suspension design for this year? The wider track means the outside tire will have a faster arc than last generation.
Vertically, not a lot. Rockers often have two mounting points yielding different MR's. I would expect a different track to have new rockers drilled to keep the motion ratio(s) constant.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Thanks for that, I didn't think about rocker pivots.
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f1316
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Is anyone else more confused about what is and isn't legal than when this all began (likely just me being dim again)?

Seems like: AMuS reckon both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions are legal; Autosprint reckon only Red Bull's is illegal and that Ferrari will end up with a Mercedes style solution; but Scarbs seems to be saying both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions were illegal (but will have to see how they get round it).

Seems like the only thing that can possibly be clear is that it's still not that clear, right?

Gothrek
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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f1316 wrote:Is anyone else more confused about what is and isn't legal than when this all began (likely just me being dim again)?

Seems like: AMuS reckon both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions are legal; Autosprint reckon only Red Bull's is illegal and that Ferrari will end up with a Mercedes style solution; but Scarbs seems to be saying both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions were illegal (but will have to see how they get round it).

Seems like the only thing that can possibly be clear is that it's still not that clear, right?
i have the same feeling :)

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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f1316 wrote:Is anyone else more confused about what is and isn't legal than when this all began?
I think the real problem is that the Rules & TD's are draughted by people who don't understand the physics of a suspension. I would include many senior F1 engineers in that category. As Cold Fusion stated recently, "Sound logic from Charlie Whiting and the FIA is a very rare commodity."

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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I know it is probably unfair to bring this up, but here is an example. How a respected senior F1 engineer can talk for an hour+ about the design of F1 cars without mentioning suspension defeats me (unless I was asleep at the time).

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Image

How does the rocker arm connect to the coilover, or is that a heave spring?
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roon
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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I don't think it's part of the suspension. That spring is pretty small. For reference the mounting studs are M12, so the spring wire is only maybe 4 or 5mm thick. Might be part of either a starter motor actuator, or a clutch/transmission actuator which is not installed. Considering the state of disassembly. Source on the image?

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Interesting. I believe the camera is looking across the vehicle ahead of the rear axle. That labelled "Rocker Arm" is probably the rear pull rod, attached to the rocker ahead of the rocker post, which tilted at 40 degrees to the vertical. I suspect the (faintly surprising) spring labelled "Coil over" could be (one of two) corner springs over rear corner dampers. The "Mounting Studs" probably attach the rear axle to the engine. It doesn't appear to be complete.

Questions: What vehicle? What year? Another view (from underneath, perhaps)?

p.s. roon could be correct.

roon
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Turbo-era Red Bull, most likely the RB12. This is the transmission/bellhousing which connects to the backside of the engine with the six mounting studs labelled in the image. The pullrod bellcrank (or rocker arm) directly acts upon a torsion spring internal to it, one per corner. Dampers, heave elements, ARB & other elements are housed inside the casing.

DaveW
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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roon wrote: ... directly acts upon a torsion spring internal to it, one per corner.
I said it was surprising because many designs had ditched the corner springs altogether, relying on a heave spring the ARB (& the rear flexures, I guess).
Last edited by DaveW on 28 Jan 2017, 23:41, edited 1 time in total.

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dans79
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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f1316 wrote:Is anyone else more confused about what is and isn't legal than when this all began (likely just me being dim again)?

Seems like: AMuS reckon both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions are legal; Autosprint reckon only Red Bull's is illegal and that Ferrari will end up with a Mercedes style solution; but Scarbs seems to be saying both Red Bull and Mercedes solutions were illegal (but will have to see how they get round it).

Seems like the only thing that can possibly be clear is that it's still not that clear, right?
I get the feeling a lot of it is just fake news, because they need to say something to drive clicks.
197 104 103 7

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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DaveW wrote:Interesting. I believe the camera is looking across the vehicle ahead of the rear axle. That labelled "Rocker Arm" is probably the rear pull rod, attached to the rocker ahead of the rocker post, which tilted at 40 degrees to the vertical. I suspect the (faintly surprising) spring labelled "Coil over" could be (one of two) corner springs over rear corner dampers. The "Mounting Studs" probably attach the rear axle to the engine. It doesn't appear to be complete.

Questions: What vehicle? What year? Another view (from underneath, perhaps)?

p.s. roon could be correct.
That's an RB12 image. It's on page 32 of the car thread. I took the liberty of translating the labeled parts as they're in French.
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FrukostScones
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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AMUS:

tomorrow 07.02. TD meeting of teams,
big topic Merc & RB suspension...
Ferrari wasn't able to replicate, others wants to have it banned too...
threatening protest at Melbourne...

https://translate.google.com/translate? ... t=&act=url
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

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Interesting, we'll see who was ready based on who protests.

I wouldn't be surprised if TR and FI don't protest. Interesting development for sure.
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