2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter does not belong here.
Xwang
2
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:12 am

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Xwang » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:22 am

Or maybe you ask later because if it is ok you do not want to give ideas to the other teams in time for them to implement in the car they are developing.
I suppose it is possible that Ferrari has followed a two ways strategy developing both a "traditional" system and a more advanced one and only now asks FIA if the more advanced system is legal.

Just_a_fan
232
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:25 am

FW17 wrote:
There is an assumption that cannot be proven, that with stalling of the rear wing the heave spring is manipulated to stay down to enable a low drag configuration.
Sadly Mark Hughes seems not to understand that reducing the angle of attack of the wing is not stalling it. Quite the opposite. It reduces lift and hence drag but it's not stalled. The diffuser, on the other hand, may well stall as the rear ride height reduces.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

mclaren111
56
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:49 am
Location: JHB Hell Hole - South Africa

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by mclaren111 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:56 am

RedNEO wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:
RedNEO wrote:Can't be a bad thing for Ferrari. They've effectively taken away a chunk of performance from not one but two of there biggest rivals.
Like as not they couldn't get it to work properly so jabbed Charlie in to action instead. Typical Ferrari really.
From what we are hearing it takes along time to get something like this to work as well as Mercedes or Red Bull. So while it may be partially true what you say about Ferrari if they have inturn indirectly helped McLaren I won't complain.
I agree with that =D> =D> No complaints if it helps McLaren !! :mrgreen:

santos
10
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:48 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by santos » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:04 pm

Just_a_fan wrote:
RedNEO wrote:Can't be a bad thing for Ferrari. They've effectively taken away a chunk of performance from not one but two of there biggest rivals.
Like as not they couldn't get it to work properly so jabbed Charlie in to action instead. Typical Ferrari really.
Typical Ferrari hater... Every team uses this system to clarify some techincal solutions. It's not a "typical Ferrari" thing. There is nothing unfair about that. One the other hand, if no one asked FIA about that, Mercedes could use a system that is not allowed. And that is cheating.

Just_a_fan
232
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:32 pm

santos wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:
RedNEO wrote:Can't be a bad thing for Ferrari. They've effectively taken away a chunk of performance from not one but two of there biggest rivals.
Like as not they couldn't get it to work properly so jabbed Charlie in to action instead. Typical Ferrari really.
Typical Ferrari hater... Every team uses this system to clarify some techincal solutions. It's not a "typical Ferrari" thing. There is nothing unfair about that. One the other hand, if no one asked FIA about that, Mercedes could use a system that is not allowed. And that is cheating.
Some of us remember Ferrari doing this many years ago. It's not unusual for them to do it in an attempt to gain an advantage. The system is there so why not use it? All's fair. It's not "hating" to point out that some teams use the system more than others.

As for Mercedes' system being a cheat, it has passed scrutineering at every race. By definition it has been considered to be legal. By definition it's use is thus not cheating.

Charlie has given an opinion that it is contrary to the rules. That doesn't make it illegal but it might make defending it "in court" more difficult. It becomes cheating when it is determined by the FIA's legal process to be contrary to the rules.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

toraabe
11
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:42 am

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by toraabe » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:05 pm

Says more about Ferari that they are not as good as RB and Merc.
Their engine is good, but their chassis is just average. Force India is almost as good.

wuzak
262
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by wuzak » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:27 pm

Just_a_fan wrote: As for Mercedes' system being a cheat, it has passed scrutineering at every race. By definition it has been considered to be legal. By definition it's use is thus not cheating.
It is not necessarily clear to the scrutineers what function such a device has or how it operates and they are unlikely to disassemble it to check for themselves unless a protest has been lodged.

So I doubt that the scrutineers have even considered the legality of such a device. It's not something they can measure on their test rig.

Pierce89
93
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Pierce89 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:25 pm

santos wrote:
Just_a_fan wrote:
RedNEO wrote:Can't be a bad thing for Ferrari. They've effectively taken away a chunk of performance from not one but two of there biggest rivals.
Like as not they couldn't get it to work properly so jabbed Charlie in to action instead. Typical Ferrari really.
Typical Ferrari hater... Every team uses this system to clarify some techincal solutions. It's not a "typical Ferrari" thing. There is nothing unfair about that. One the other hand, if no one asked FIA about that, Mercedes could use a system that is not allowed. And that is cheating.
Hey Santos you better watch out. Ive already been downvoted for calling out the Ferrari haters in this thread. Anybody who thinks Ferrari "couldn't get it working" is more than slightly naive. Every f1 team has PLENTY of brain power to develop mechanical elements like this. Aerodynamics is virtually the only part of the car that is not virtually completely understood.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

Pierce89
93
User avatar
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Pierce89 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:13 pm

Wow the Ferrari haters have downvoted me twice in this thread.Mods?
Could it possibly be Just-a-Fan downvoting me? Surely not, as he normally presents as a rational human being.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

Phillyred
5
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Phillyred » Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:27 pm

The timing of this inquiry is interesting.. I suppose being a Merc fan I'd rather see it now rather later during testing etc...

basti313
39
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 1:49 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by basti313 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:22 pm

FW17 wrote: How can that be proved within regulations?
That is one of the big questions . How could FRIC be legal over such a long time? How can these hydraulic storage devices be legal over a year? What are Charlie and his team doing when they check the cars?

I can not understand why Ferrari needs to write such a stupid letter to get the rules applied.

Phillyred
5
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Phillyred » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:27 pm

Is it possible Charlie and co. didn't see this heave spring/fric-esque suspension hidden in plain side when they do their inspections? Then again, doesn't Charlie have to uphold some type of confidentiality not to expose another team's clever way/innovation to balance the car especially if it has given them an edge?

dans79
105
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:33 pm
Location: USA

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by dans79 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:06 pm

Maybe the Merc system doesn't work the way Ferrari and the press thinks it does!

Just_a_fan
232
Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:37 pm

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by Just_a_fan » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:50 pm

Pierce89 wrote:Wow the Ferrari haters have downvoted me twice in this thread.Mods?
Could it possibly be Just-a-Fan downvoting me? Surely not, as he normally presents as a rational human being.
Not me! I've been down voted too. Shame that anonymous voting occurs rather than debate.

Actually, looking at the down votes (2), they state "lies" which suggests one person doing the down voting. Ah well.
Turbo says "Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools."

wuzak
262
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 2:26 am

Re: 2017 Formula 1 suspension designs

Post by wuzak » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:09 am

basti313 wrote: I can not understand why Ferrari needs to write such a stupid letter to get the rules applied.
They are asking for clarification on the rules.

Not necessarily to get systems banned, but to check whether it is worth the effort and expense of developing such a system themselves.



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Albrodpul, bucker, CCBot [Bot], jonas_linder, mrluke, SteveRacer, totox, Yisou [Spider] and 44 guests