McLaren MCL32 Honda

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wesley123
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Andres125sx wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 18:43
wesley123 wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 18:32
McLaren now has missed a whole season of development, and that is some real life testing that they will never get back.
Sorry but.... WHAT???

Did you watch Melbourne car and did you watch last one? You can´t see any development in this half season?
Yeah, just compare it to the Renault and Williams. The McLaren has changed very little compared to launch. A single barge board update at Melbourne, a rear wing and a few front wing tweaks a few races later were all the changes done, with a few tweaks here and there.

Its development pace has been significantly worse than the other teams, even Toro Rosso has done more to their car.

Even if they wrote off the season, this is some real life testing in a critical stage of the ruleset that they won't get back
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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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They put some slots in front of the rear wheels.
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makecry
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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wesley123 wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 13:39
zxof wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 11:02
makecry wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 10:41
Is it just me or McLaren hasn't been that aggressive on updates lately?
Yep I think I read somewhere that they've shifted the focus to 2018.
They'll only bring updates this year if considered relevant to their 2018 cars
Well considering the rules for 2018 are mostly the same, I cannot imagine that parts for 2018 wouldn't be useful this year.

But this is all Honda's fault, of course :lol: .

Unnecessary irrelevant bullshit and no, it is kind of Honda's fault now that you bring it up. If Honda had a PU that was F1 worthy, they would still be McLaren Honda and they wont have to revise a lot of stuff on their car for Renault PU which includes modification to the entire rear end of the car. Renault has larger radiators too so that is one thing among many.

wesley123
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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I'm really missing something apparently, but I really don't get how McLaren not updating their car would be Hondas fault. I thought Honda just built the PU?
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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godlameroso
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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makecry wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 23:25
wesley123 wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 13:39
zxof wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 11:02


Yep I think I read somewhere that they've shifted the focus to 2018.
They'll only bring updates this year if considered relevant to their 2018 cars
Well considering the rules for 2018 are mostly the same, I cannot imagine that parts for 2018 wouldn't be useful this year.

But this is all Honda's fault, of course :lol: .

Unnecessary irrelevant bullshit and no, it is kind of Honda's fault now that you bring it up. If Honda had a PU that was F1 worthy, they would still be McLaren Honda and they wont have to revise a lot of stuff on their car for Renault PU which includes modification to the entire rear end of the car. Renault has larger radiators too so that is one thing among many.
They're also giving up $100 million, which I suppose was used to update the chassis :-k
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Morteza
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Image
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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Good to see 2018 testing has started !! :D :D :D

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Image

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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wesley123 wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 19:03
Andres125sx wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 18:43
wesley123 wrote:
28 Sep 2017, 18:32
McLaren now has missed a whole season of development, and that is some real life testing that they will never get back.
Sorry but.... WHAT???

Did you watch Melbourne car and did you watch last one? You can´t see any development in this half season?
Yeah, just compare it to the Renault and Williams. The McLaren has changed very little compared to launch. A single barge board update at Melbourne, a rear wing and a few front wing tweaks a few races later were all the changes done, with a few tweaks here and there.

Its development pace has been significantly worse than the other teams, even Toro Rosso has done more to their car.
What you call a few tweaks has been a completely revised car, FW, bargeboards, floor, diffuser, RW, Twing, monkey seat, T-tray.... the whole car has changed during the season

The rate of develpoment is irrelevant, as it is how much it has changed. Do you know how effective was STR aero at the beginning of the season before assuming their development was better?. What if it was useless and they had to redesign the whole car?

To me McLaren car being similar to the very first version of the season means their CFD work was great and they didn´t need to change too many things, opposite to your point of view assuming they should have changed the car completely. Did Ferrari and Mercedes changed their car completely? :roll:

You´re asking for a new car mid-season, to me that would be disastrous. I do prefer evolution, wich means the changes are not drastic because the first car was good.

wesley123
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Andres125sx wrote:
29 Sep 2017, 08:49
What you call a few tweaks has been a completely revised car, FW, bargeboards, floor, diffuser, RW, Twing, monkey seat, T-tray.... the whole car has changed during the season
Hardly, certainly compared to the rest of the field.
The rate of develpoment is irrelevant
Ehhm no it's not, especially not in the first year of a ruleset.
Do you know how effective was STR aero at the beginning of the season before assuming their development was better?. What if it was useless and they had to redesign the whole car?
Never said it was better, although it is reasonable to assume so. McLaren has seen the least aero development by far.
To me McLaren car being similar to the very first version of the season means their CFD work was great and they didn´t need to change too many things, opposite to your point of view assuming they should have changed the car completely.
Sure, McLaren, who hasn't had any success since 2012, has such great aero that they completely nailed the ruleset on their first try and doesn't need any additional tiny elements where literally the rest of the field does need that.

The argument "well maybe they don't need it" completely falls in the water if the rest of the field does need it. Outside of the fact that they are nowhere in terms of pace, and even the tracks that suit them they are the fourth best team, if they are lucky. And no, that cannot all be blamed on Honda.
Did Ferrari and Mercedes changed their car completely? :roll:
I'm sure you expected a 'no' to this question, so I'm sorry to disappoint. But yes, they did. Mercedes completely revamped their front aero with the cape and smaller nose cone.

Ferrari made many changes as well, and for this race they had additional cooling intakes in the airbox, which would indicate a change to their cooling setup.

Perhaps we have different views on this, but I would consider these bigger changes than raising the connection point of the barge boards on the tub or an update to the rear wing end plate.
You´re asking for a new car mid-season, to me that would be disastrous. I do prefer evolution, wich means the changes are not drastic because the first car was good.
No I'm not. There simply is no way that a team would completely nail a new ruleset on the first try. Which essentially makes in-season development very important, everyone is still looking at what works and the philosophy that teams will follow with this ruleset. McLAren has done very little in that regard, and these real life km's they could have used to dump parts on to look what sticks(considering how they threw away the year very early already) aren't coming back.

EDIT: mclaren111 posted a pic of an updated barge board package, neat.
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Steven
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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Gents, please... If you want to argue about the amount of updates McLaren has brought, list exactly which updates were brought, otherwise your discussion is useless, unfounded, and driving further off-topic drivel.

Without such list, you'll have to agree to disagree, and I'll filter further posts.

Also, the future of McLaren without Honda is widely off-topic in this thread as well!

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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GP Update:

McLaren feels its performance has been lifted by the introduction of a new floor, which was fitted to Fernando Alonso's MCL32 during practice for the Malaysian Grand Prix.

"We trialled some new components on Fernando's car today, and they look to be a useful new addition," said Racing Director Eric Boullier.
3rd new floor I think.

From what I have observed so far this year there were mostly small incremental changes with a focus on details - IMHO

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Andres125sx
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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wesley123 wrote:
29 Sep 2017, 11:47
Sure, McLaren, who hasn't had any success since 2012, has such great aero that they completely nailed the ruleset on their first try and doesn't need any additional tiny elements where literally the rest of the field does need that.
First, you´re using a straw man argument. None said they doesn´t need any additional elements. Actually I listed myself all the elements they changed during the season, wich basically is the whole car :roll:

Second, you´re basing your argument on "McLaren hasn´t had any success since 2012". But that´s exactly the reason they hired Peter Prodomou. Do you think he´s useless maybe? 2016 car had a suspension problem, and with this new ruleset added to the poor PU wich supposedly would be much better in 2017 they probably focused on 2017 car very soon


Finally, even Monaco use full throttle for 42% of the lap. If you think a good chassis can compensate 60-80 bhp difference even in Monaco, sorry but you´re wrong. Firstly because Ferrari and Mercedes also have great aero so you can´t assume Mclaren is so extremelly good their power deficit for 42% of the lap can be compensated with a good chassis. That´s ridiculous, even if they have the best chassis the power deficit is too big even for Monaco. Monaco and similar tracks can make a small PU difference to disapear, and since usually PUs are close in perfomance that´s the reason people say PUs are not that importante there, but if the difference is 60bhp or even more...


Anycase we´ll find out next season, but please keep in mind I never said McLaren chassis is the best, I only said they´ve developed their car more than you stated

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kaepernickus
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Re: McLaren MCL32 Honda

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wesley123 wrote:
29 Sep 2017, 11:47
Sure, McLaren, who hasn't had any success since 2012, has such great aero that they completely nailed the ruleset on their first try and doesn't need any additional tiny elements where literally the rest of the field does need that.
McLaren's aero department has been completely changed since the end of the 2014 season. So everything before 2015 has little relevance for the current car as it's a different team now.
With the 2015 car McLaren changed it's aero philosophy and has developed it since then. So it's hardly "nailed on their first try".

Yes there's a new set of rules, but that hasn't changed what's important and so philosophies and many designs could be carried over for 2017.

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