Lotus T127 Cosworth

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Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:44 am

Diesel wrote:
gibells wrote:By all accounts Campos are just holding on to the F1 team place (for potential sale to another party), which is wrong in my eyes- given the mess it could create with the BMW team.


The bit the pisses me off the most about this is that BMW is already a team and people have jobs there. I was really suprised to hear Frank Williams was blocking the new BMW outfit, but then again I think he's losing it these days anyway.

As far as this Lotus goes. This is most certainly an early idea and it's been released to generate some media buzz, just like it's doing now.


Why is this Frank's problem? BMW could have avoided all this by signing up and then selling up at the end of year....or selling earlier. BMW have handled this badly why should the rules be changed to help them? If Qadbak are as rich as they make out, buying Campos' slot wouldn't be difficult.
- Axle
axle
 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:11 pm

Word
ISLAMATRON
 
Joined: 1 Oct 2008

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:57 pm

Campos are going to drop out anyway, and Sauber are next in line for the slot. No need to buy anything. It's already been said, that others are likely to drop out. In the meantime I'm sure that Sauber are designing their 2010 entrant.

As far as Lotus are concerned (will disregard the questionable 'shop' in the photo's background) their photo release is a sure media PR move to gain credibility and sponsors' interest.

USF1 have told everyone that wind tunnels are so "last year" a move IMO showing the relative thin credibility of the team when everyone is drooling over the new wind tunnels. Maybe 10 years in the future but for now, the wind tunnel is still king.

As far a Campos? Is there any news about them at all? I see their actions as nothig more than buying a popular domain name on then net.

Will have to wait and see if there's any cred there.
Last edited by Astro1 on Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Astro1
 
Joined: 8 Jan 2008

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:01 pm

Why is this Frank's problem?


I guess that's exactly what he would say. Not very nice is it really, a very selfish attitude. I guess that's Williams in a nutshell though, an incredibly selfish team.

If Qadbak are as rich as they make out, buying Campos' slot wouldn't be difficult.


Blackmail? These are peoples jobs on the line, its disgraceful. Frank is probably in on it to make a bit of money.
"Unbelievable how silly this Formula 1 is these days, with this stupid overtakes."
—Sebastian Vettel, 2012 US GP
Diesel
 
Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Location: ...

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:07 pm

They say the only reason Frank is blocking it is because he wants the Petronas sponsorship back. It would be absolutely excellent if he didn't get it at all. Actually there's a good chance that Lotus would get it, even if BMW weren't allowed back in anyway. That would truly be just.
gibells
 
Joined: 8 Apr 2009
Location: Andalucia, Spain

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:08 pm

The funniest thing about that car is positive and asymmetric camber at the rear axle. Priceless!
timbo
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2007

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:42 pm

Diesel wrote:
Why is this Frank's problem?


I guess that's exactly what he would say. Not very nice is it really, a very selfish attitude. I guess that's Williams in a nutshell though, an incredibly selfish team.

If Qadbak are as rich as they make out, buying Campos' slot wouldn't be difficult.


Blackmail? These are peoples jobs on the line, its disgraceful. Frank is probably in on it to make a bit of money.


What are you on about with the Blackmail comment?
As someone else has said - this will all be resolved when Campos backout due to the budget limit not being enforced.
Don't forget Williams arn't the only blockers of the 28car grid.

Everyone else seems to be happy to make the rules up as they go along, yet Williams appear to be trying to stick to the letter of the law. Why shouldn't they be "selfish" they are an independent company trying to fight for their survival they should stick to their guns to protect their own interests within the rules they all agreed to.
- Axle
axle
 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:14 pm

axle wrote:
Diesel wrote:
Why is this Frank's problem?


I guess that's exactly what he would say. Not very nice is it really, a very selfish attitude. I guess that's Williams in a nutshell though, an incredibly selfish team.

If Qadbak are as rich as they make out, buying Campos' slot wouldn't be difficult.


Blackmail? These are peoples jobs on the line, its disgraceful. Frank is probably in on it to make a bit of money.


What are you on about with the Blackmail comment?
As someone else has said - this will all be resolved when Campos backout due to the budget limit not being enforced.
Don't forget Williams arn't the only blockers of the 28car grid.

Everyone else seems to be happy to make the rules up as they go along, yet Williams appear to be trying to stick to the letter of the law. Why shouldn't they be "selfish" they are an independent company trying to fight for their survival they should stick to their guns to protect their own interests within the rules they all agreed to.


Trust me on this one if every other team would stick to their guns to protect their interests within the rules, we would not have any racing at all. All we would have is a lot of suits in court trying to prove their point to Max or whoever is in charge.
Avto
 
Joined: 20 Jan 2009

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:28 pm

Astro1 wrote:USF1 have told everyone that wind tunnels are so "last year" a move IMO showing the relative thin credibility of the team when everyone is drooling over the new wind tunnels. Maybe 10 years in the future but for now, the wind tunnel is still king.

Well, Manor's (Virgin's?) car will have no time on the wind tunnel, Wirth Research are solely using CFD. We just have to seat back for some months before we realize if wind tunnels are still or not anymore required.
dumrick
 
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Portugal

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:55 pm

timbo wrote:The funniest thing about that car is positive and asymmetric camber at the rear axle. Priceless!

Could the car be on dolleys (don't know if that's their real name or I've got it mixed up)?
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
roost89
 
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: Highlands, Scotland

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:25 pm

I don't want to hate, but the shop is so questionable at best.

As someone pointed out, the rear camber is off, though it could be the photos angle. The front wheels are backwards?

There is a laminated chart or something hanging sideways by at best a tack, and is that some sort of posters or junk towards the top right back of the photo? Like they tore stuff down before taking the shot? There's numerous tape on the walls and it's just tacky. The white marker board? Those gasket looking things on the floor to the right side of the sidepod. Doesn't seem like an F1 caliber shop. I've seen auto dealerships at least on par with that.

Those photos seem rushed for PR only and I wouldn't be surprised if Lotus pulls out. This could be an effort to get some PR and money?

Though don't get me wrong, I would LOVE for them to be in F1 and refresh F1 a bit. The new arrivals presence is only for the best but I'm having serious :? doubts seeing these photos.
Astro1
 
Joined: 8 Jan 2008

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 6:31 pm

Astro1 wrote:The front wheels are backwards?


Now that you mentioned it... I looked at the first photo once again just to find out, that the markings on front tyres are "FL" and "FR". But wait a second.. shouldn't they be like.. the other way round? :P

It seems that Lotus has "inherited" more than just Malaysian sponsors from BMW.. I mean, only BMW's mechanics were capable of swapping the left tyres with the right ones (see Kubica's qualifying pitsop during Spanish GP).
Pit
 
Joined: 26 Sep 2009

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:38 pm

A little bit of info related to the development time scale.

FondTech wrote:DID YOU KNOW? At FondTech the design and construction of a 1:2 scale model of a F1 car takes just 50 working days.


From http://www.fondmetal.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=144&Itemid=303&lang=en
"We will have to wait and see".
pipex
 
Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Location: The net

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:23 pm

Well this little bit of work may rip this thread open...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present the VJM02...
Image

and...
...The VJM02...

Image

The facts.
1) MG works/ed for both
2) Aerolab (FondTech) was used by Toyota, Renault, FI whilst MG was with those teams.
3) Floor shape is the same
4) Front of sidepods the virtually the same without the aero bits.
5) The bits that have been modified are in a different material...yes bits are different, they have done some work, but not all of it.

If I was FI I'd be p155ed....

Here's another clincher...
Note the front wing...
Image
Image

But I'm not gloating, this is worrying to me I want the Lotus name back in F1 but not through ripping FI's interlectual property. Yes every team copies but that's blatently FI's wind tunnel model.

Your thoughts?
- Axle
axle
 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK

Post Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:06 pm

Yeah, I thought Force India front wing + Toyota nose + Williams sidepods when I first saw it...

Its strange, surely if you're going to copy something you should go for a McRedBrawn since they've been the 3 quickest cars.
deus1066
 
Joined: 20 Jun 2009

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